1. Ommonite
    Offline

    Ommonite Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2008
    Messages:
    121
    Likes Received:
    0

    Just "because"

    Discussion in 'General Writing' started by Ommonite, Sep 7, 2008.

    I've hit a slight roadblock if you will.

    The back story, if anyone doesn't know/if i haven't told anyone yet:

    An empire fell apart when the leader refused passage and exploration north beyond his border. New nations were formed, some went left and went neutral out of principle, others stayed allied but still separate to the king. However the "explorers" began to wage a war on the Allies.

    1. For what reason would the allies stay in allegiance to the emperor, but still form separate nations?

    2. How do the explorers get an army big enough to wage a war (I already decided that some of the soldiers joined and created a new army because they also felt the need to explore north, but the main story is set fifty years after the fall of the empire, so how do they survive this long without gaining many troops?

    My main problem is that I've had these ideas, which I do think are rather good, but I don't feel like saying they left the empire or survived 50 years "just because"
     
  2. ABMiller86
    Offline

    ABMiller86 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2008
    Messages:
    36
    Likes Received:
    0
    The reason is simple, mutually assured survival... maybe the allies (the original empire and those nations that are working with them), are comprised mostly of smaller nations that fear the explorers should the main nation fall.

    Geopolitical landscape has alot to play in the world, whether you're talking about the real one or one that you have made up. About 70 years ago, a small nation called Germany raised an army and started a war that brought the world to its knees, they did this with one mans charisma and using the wants of his people and the greed of other leaders (Japan, Italy, Spain) to form one of the true "evil" organizations to ever exist in the real world

    --------------

    I would really recommend reading some history books, there is some good stuff that you can pull from them, also when thinking about how to explain things that seem difficult remember that when time passes things move from true story to legend, things talked about in whisper or told to children at bed time... you could use the Legend of the Explorers of the North or something like that.

    Hope it helps
     
  3. Etan Isar
    Offline

    Etan Isar Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2007
    Messages:
    1,183
    Likes Received:
    32
    An unlikely occurrence. Beyond issues with geo-political boundaries, reasons for already established nations to annex territory across another country's territory would have to be pretty strong.

    I'm still not undertsanding this concept...

    Dito the other poster, as well as the possibility hat they did not originally support the rebellion.

    This "explorer" thing still doesn't make sense to me. Who are they? Who suppors them? What is their purpose? Knowing that would help people answer your questions. Besides, it's not troops that are the most important, but support. Where do they get food, money, materials, goods?

    You don't seem to have all the details worked out, and you are going to have trouble answering these questions until you manage that.
     
  4. thirdwind
    Offline

    thirdwind Contributing Member Contest Administrator Reviewer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2008
    Messages:
    7,352
    Likes Received:
    2,895
    Location:
    Boston
    1. Protection is one thing. But I don't know if the emperor would allow them to be separate and give them protection. The emperor would need a very good reason to do this. I would bet the separate nations would more likely get help from each other, and then if all fails, get help from the emperor. At this point, the emperor would probably only offer protection if the separate nations come back under his rule.

    2. The explorers could be hit-and-run fighters. You'd be amazed at how effective a guerrilla army is at battling a big army. Also, they could take over little towns and force the conquered to join the army or else face death.

    Also, Etan Isar is right. Never in history have I heard of an empire falling apart when a leader refused passage to someone.
     
  5. Ommonite
    Offline

    Ommonite Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2008
    Messages:
    121
    Likes Received:
    0
    Okay, I guess the whole thing wasn't that well explained, so I'll go through it in as bit more detail. Also I'm taking a few of your comments as well, so don't be all "you already had the answer"

    anyway;

    Fifty years into the Second Grand Empire, the Age of Exploration and Manifest Destiny are in the hearts of many of the citizens. After several failed attempts to explore the south by boat, it was decided to head north, beyond the Capital border. however the Emperor went against this forbade any travel to the north.

    With the urge to explorer strong in their hearts, several smaller regions of the Empire declared themselves free nations from the Empire. These new nations fought a defensive rebellion against the Emperor until he eventually surrenders them as his territory. Still, bordering the north is his Empire.

    After the rebellions, the Explorers began their war that carried for half of a century, while other now free nations stayed allied to the former Emperor, now merely King of his own land, and joined his forces in the battle against the Explorers.

    The argument that this could not happen is moot. I see this as a good and creative idea, otherwise I would not go this far with it.

    It is a new idea and shows a struggle that isn't just the same old Good v. Evil. It is Exploration v. World Domination.
     
  6. ABMiller86
    Offline

    ABMiller86 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2008
    Messages:
    36
    Likes Received:
    0
    The idea has definitely developed sense my last post, i dont know if you are looking for validation of your plot or ideas so... i will give a little of both and you can decide what to do with the information i give you.

    The urge to explore strong in there hearts... well that is great and all but a reason to declare independence and go to war... ehh little shacking imo. Add something to there reason; being mistreated by the elite (the king and those kingdoms that would most likely stay allied with him). It could make this alliance of "explorers" seem much more relate able to have them be the workers, or the down trodden who rose up to be heard.

    Also having the former Emperor, now king having to work with the other kings instead of ordering them around now creates a new dynamic for his alliance.

    I can understand and think it's a cool idea to have a conflict not stationed around good v. evil, however if that is your goal than it is important to make the reader feel sympathetic towards each side, there are many ways of doing this but be careful as you are writing to make sure you yourself dont become... biased towards one side or another.
     
  7. Ommonite
    Offline

    Ommonite Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2008
    Messages:
    121
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hehe, well with several characters coming from both sides, I'm sure I and the readers will not choose a side.
     
  8. ABMiller86
    Offline

    ABMiller86 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2008
    Messages:
    36
    Likes Received:
    0
    Just letting you know what to watch out for when trying to write a piece of fiction when the two sides fight arent "evil"... i have seen a lot of writers start off with that very same claim... and about 150 pages or so in, suddenly i am reading about the great noble peaceful honest graceful and fair alliance versing off against the dirty rotten mean ugly scumful horde.
     
  9. Ommonite
    Offline

    Ommonite Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2008
    Messages:
    121
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well i never said one side wont become evil. Unless you've read/reviewed the expert in the Novels section here, you wont even know which side the protagonists are on.
     
  10. Etan Isar
    Offline

    Etan Isar Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2007
    Messages:
    1,183
    Likes Received:
    32
    Okay. As an American, I can see where your idea of using "Manifest Destiny" as an issue is coming from. However, I hope you can be a little more specific. In the kind of governemnt you are describing, the will of the people matters little. It is mainly the rulers whose opinions will affect such large issues. I can understand one or even maybe two petty rulers being explorers, possibly, along the lines of a real world figure like Henry the navigator. But I have two issues with your little rebellion. First, the idea that enough nations would break away to cause so much trouble, and the idea that they would be able to hold off an "empire." Second, the idea that the north is so entirely unexplored seems a bit off to me. How far north are these natins going to have to travel to reach an unexplored area, and why are the inhabitants of these northern lands not playing much of a part?

    I am not trying to say that you should give up this idea. Although there are plenty of stories involving exploration as well as conflict beyond the "old Good vs. Evil", there's nothing wrong with you giving the idea your own flavor. it's just that the geography, economy and politics as you have described them don't seem very workable to me. Having to fight through hostile territory to the North to even have a chance at exploration? Hw would such expeditions be supplied, especially during apparent war-time? I'm also not sre I see the World Domination Factor. "Exploration" is fairly clear in what you have provided.

    Please remember that these are merely issues to consider, and not an attempt to make yo give up on your story.
     
  11. Ommonite
    Offline

    Ommonite Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2008
    Messages:
    121
    Likes Received:
    0
    As far as world domination goes, the former emperor is trying to hold an empire of all that is known of the world, and the easiest way to do that is to make the "world" as small as possible.

    The war is really about the right to explore.

    The rulers themselves don't go out and do the exploring, but they would all like to know whats up there and claim a bit of their own.

    The reason why the north is so unexplored is because no one ever wanted to. again, this is a war for the right to explorer. The Explorers to very little exploring, and a whole lot of fighting. And as for why no one from the north is visiting south, well, that might be explained later. I have a reason but I can't say as it is a huge spoiler.

    and as for "how far must they travel" well considering the fact that the former emperor has control of much of the border, with an allied nation to either side of his territory, the Explorers need merely capture one of those three territories to end the war.

    The key factor in all of your questions and confusions is this;

    There is a difference between "explorers" and "The Explorers"
     
  12. Etan Isar
    Offline

    Etan Isar Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2007
    Messages:
    1,183
    Likes Received:
    32
    Okay, I was alittle unclear as to whether the war was over or not, sorry.
     
  13. Ommonite
    Offline

    Ommonite Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2008
    Messages:
    121
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yeah there was the initial rebellion that got them all free from the empire, and then the fifty year war that goes on to the novel.
     

Share This Page