Keeping dialogue interesting.

Discussion in 'Word Mechanics' started by Flashfire07, Sep 8, 2011.

Tags:
  1. Flashfire07

    Flashfire07 Active Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2011
    Messages:
    186
    Likes Received:
    8
    I'm using Australian English. It's a combination of the two.
    Oh right, I forgot to add the actions in, sorry. The actions are not the issue in my writing, it's more the speech itself, especially in my sci-fi ones, it gets very... hammed up and overly theatrical, lots of fire and brimstone villains and ray of light heroes even though that's what I try to avoid.

    The dialogue example was meant to be (please don't expect quality, it's just a quick throw together example of the kind of dialogue I write) :

    "Look, Cody, you know as well as I do that driving halfway around the country, dashboard full of pills, .45 caliber handgun ammo and a knife used to defend divers from sharks is going to end badly" Javier said, rummaging around the back seat of his car.
    "Hmmm... yeah we should out it in the boot..." Cody mused, chewing his finger lost in thought.
    "No! That's almost as bad, that way it's obvious we tried to hide it, are you... no, I already know the answer to that" Snapped Javier
    "Answer to what?" Cody said, perplexed by his friends anger.
    "Nothing. Maybe put in a false bottom to the boot?" Javier said, mostly to himself.
    "We don't have time for that Javier!" Hissed Cody. Getting impatient. "We don't know how long we have before Damien rocks up, we wanna be out of here before that psychotic bastard finds us again, or have you forgotten what he did t you last time?" Old memories bubbling to the surface he growled the last few words.
    "I remeber" Javier said angrily, raising his hand to the ragged burn on his cheek. "What do you suggest we do to hide the stuff?"
    Cody thought for a second, tapping his face with a thumb while chewing his index finger "Ok. I carry the gun, you shove the pills down your pants. Easy"
    Javier balked. "I have to drive, and I'm not trusting you with a weapon"
    "You can drive with those down your pants, it's fine" Cody waved his non-chewed hand, dismissing his companions fears.
    "Not if we get pulled over damn it!" Javier shouted, slamming his fist into the back of the car seat.
     
  2. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2010
    Messages:
    13,984
    Likes Received:
    8,557
    Location:
    California, US
    "Boot" is also used in America, so boot and pants go fine together. But use of boot will give a regional connotation.
     
  3. madhoca

    madhoca Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2008
    Messages:
    2,604
    Likes Received:
    151
    Location:
    the shadow of the velvet fortress
    Really? Americans say a car has a boot, not a trunk?
    As for the actions--combining them, and indicating how the words are said, is part of the challenge of writing dialogue. I don't think you can show the speech in isolation. Your example shows awareness of this, but it would be better not to use the
    speech--said x/y--action
    combo all the time, or those adverbs.
     
  4. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2010
    Messages:
    13,984
    Likes Received:
    8,557
    Location:
    California, US
    In the south, so as I said its use will give a regional feel. I lived in Georgia as a kid and most of my relatives there said, and continue to say, "boot" instead of trunk. I also heard it used in Missouri in the more rural areas. In the south it is considered to be a more rural, country usage, whereas in the cities you'll hear trunk. I didn't realize that "boot" wasn't used everywhere in the U.S. until I moved out of the south as a kid :)
     
  5. cobaltblue

    cobaltblue New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2011
    Messages:
    94
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    Austin, Texas
    I'm struggling with writing dialogue too. I tend to start writing and then go off on a tangent, into a never ending meaningless conversation. Then I stop and read it though and think, oh man I've written a load of nonsense again! I find it hard to write convincing dialogue, but I keep trying!

    Flashfire: your latest example has too many wordy speech tags.

    This is bad: "It's getting a bit theatrical." he whispered, scratching the mosquito bite on the inside of his leg. "Your characters are not just talking they are over-acting." she yelled angrily, rustling through her backpack for her favourite pen. "Stop looking for your pen." He barked, frustrated by her nervous energy. "Calm down." she sighed and threw her backpack dramatically to the floor.


    This is better:
    "It's getting a bit theatrical." he said.
    "Your characters are not just talking, they're over-acting." explained the girl, searching through her bag.
    "Stop looking for your pen, it's distracting." he said
    "Okay, calm down." she replied.

    I'm not saying I just wrote good dialogue.. I'm just trying to point out how much cleaner and easier to read you can make your dialogue if you don't add huge speech tags on to every segment.

    HTH, Blue

    ps. I find it very interesting that Aussie English is a combo of Brit and American English. :D
     
  6. Flashfire07

    Flashfire07 Active Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2011
    Messages:
    186
    Likes Received:
    8
    I tend to write in a very overly wordy fashion, a lot of my friends who've read the few stories I let others see have said it's like stepping back a hundred years, which is ok if I'm writing fantasy but not so good if I'm writing modern fiction. My issue isn't the speech tags, that's something I'll have to work on in my own time, my issue is more on the actual dialogue. I feel like I'm in over my head already.
     
  7. Reggie

    Reggie I Like 'Em hot "N Spicy Contributor

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2010
    Messages:
    678
    Likes Received:
    22
    Location:
    USA
    I know I'm an inexperienced writer, especially for writing dialogue. I heard that if you start a scene late in your story you may find the tension of what needs to be said in dialogue and cut unnecessary dialogue as well as the action. That will likely cut the expository dialogue if you started off as writing the dialogue as late as possible in the scne. I'm not saying that the way it is written is going to be a good approach to take in the writing process. People approach writing dialogue in different ways, though.

    "Momma, let me get some money."

    "Look. I told you I don't have none. Didn't I tell you that yesterday? What happend to the money I gave you last week?"

    "Eddie takes it. He go in my room when I'm sleep."

    "I guess you going to blame it on Eddie."

    "Nuh, uh, momma, I swear. I swear on everything I love."

    "I will give you $1,000. Put it up somewhere safe. You can't be depening on me either, Sally. Whatever happend to your lil boyfiriend? Don't he have money?"

    "He left somewhere and didn't coome back."

    "Like I said, you need to get you a job or something. And stop depending on me. What if I die or something ever happen to me? And then what you going to do?"

    "Do it myself?"

    "Exactly."
     
  8. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2010
    Messages:
    15,262
    Likes Received:
    13,084
    Chiming in to comment on the sample:

    > "Look, Cody,

    If Javier and Cody are the only ones in the car, would Javier need to use Cody's name? There's no one else that he can be speaking to.

    > you know as well as I do that driving halfway around
    > the country, dashboard full of pills, .45 caliber handgun ammo
    > and a knife used to defend divers from sharks is going to end
    > badly" Javier said, rummaging around the back seat of his car.

    I think that there are a lot of phrases here that aren't doing much work. Long, complicated sentences in dialogue can be interesting or funny or character-revealing, but I don't feel that the following are doing that job:

    "dashboard full of pills"
    ".45 caliber handgun ammo"
    "you know as well as I do"
    "driving halfway across the country"
    "used to defend divers from sharks"

    If you try to "hear" your character say the sentence above, or if you actually say it aloud, does it work? It seems to me that you'd run out of breath or forget where you were in the sentence. I realize that dialogue isn't supposed to be "realistic" in the sense of being like the average dull conversation, but you should be able to imagine it being spoken. And dialogue is usually cleaner, with fewer extraneous words than real speech, rather than having more words.

    Madhoca's trimmed version of the line has much more energy and works much better, IMO. Alternatively, if you feel that you really must get more of the details in, you could do that in narrative rather than weighing down the dialogue with that job. Yes, I realize that that sounds like a potential infodump, but infodumps in dialogue are, IMO, worse than infodumps in narrative.

    > "Hmmm... yeah we should out it in the boot..." Cody mused,
    > chewing his finger lost in thought.

    Here, the "hmmm" and the ellipses are tangling up the line. You're telling us essentially six times that Cody is being thoughtful - with "hmmm", and with each ellipsis, and with "mused", and "chewing his finger" and "lost in thought".

    > "No! That's almost as bad, that way it's obvious we tried to hide
    > it, are you... no, I already know the answer to that" Snapped
    > Javier

    I think that "that's almost as bad, that way it's obvious we tried to hide it", is, again, more words than someone is likely to use in a hurried conversation.

    And a hurried conversation doesn't seem like the time for Javier to set up a passive-aggressive veiled insult as he does here. I'd expect something much briefer, like, "Idiot! Too obvious!"

    Also, I think that there are too many non-"said" tags in this small piece of dialogue. There's snapped, hissed, growled, "said angrily", and shouted. The tags are making themselves too obvious; usually, it's best to just use a plain simple "said" or leave out the tag altogether.

    > "Answer to what?" Cody said, perplexed by his friends anger.

    This makes Cody seem very dumb - the veiled insult is, IMO, pretty obvious. Also, I'd eliminate "perplexed by his friend's anger" - we can understand that from the dialogue.

    If you were tucking this in there to communicate that the two are friends, I think that the fact that they're together in some criminal enterprise makes it clear that they know each other, and it's probably better to let the reader decide whether he'd consider the relationship a friendship or something else.

    > "Nothing. Maybe put in a false bottom to the boot?" Javier said,
    > mostly to himself.

    IMO, "mostly to himself" takes energy away from the conversation, and adds a risk of confusion, without buying you anything. I realize that it's perfectly plausible for Javier to be talking to himself, but I think that this is another area where actual realism, as opposed to perceived realism, is not necessarily the goal.

    > "We don't have time for that Javier!" Hissed Cody. Getting
    > impatient.

    We can tell from the context that Cody is impatient; no need to tell us. Also, would Cody use Javier's name, given that they're the only two people here?

    > "We don't know how long we have before Damien rocks
    > up, we wanna be out of here before that psychotic bastard finds
    > us again,

    Cody has said essentially three times, in one speech, that they're short of time. ("We don't have time..." "We don't know how long..." "...we wanne be out of here...") Again, this may be perfectly realistic - people are often redundant in their speech. But unless that redundancy serves some purpose - unless it's funny, or character-revealing, for example - it's another element of realism that should be removed when writing dialogue.

    > or have you forgotten what he did t you last time?" Old
    > memories bubbling to the surface he growled the last few words.

    I think that "old memories bubbling to the surface..." is redundant; that's clear in the content of what he's saying.

    Also, "psychotic bastard" and "what he did to you last time" are, to some extent, also redundant, and redundant with the fact that they want to avoid Damien.

    In addition, the above, plus the "I remember" and the burn below, seem to be rather pointedly handing us background. Cody and Javier already know what Damien is like; why are they telling each other things that they already know? The reader is likely to realize that they're telling each other these things for the reader's benefit, and that will break the realism of the scene. If you do need to provide this piece of background in this conversation, I think that it needs to be less obvious.

    > "I remeber" Javier said angrily, raising his hand to the ragged
    > burn on his cheek. "What do you suggest we do to hide the stuff?"

    In a hurried conversation would Javier say something as long as "what do you suggest we do"?

    > Cody thought for a second, tapping his face with a thumb while
    > chewing his index finger

    This is a bit of a struggle to visualize - I'm not sure if he's using both hands for this or just one. It does make me want to reach into the scene and smack Cody's hand away from his face, which is an emotional reaction on the reader's part, which I suppose is a good thing.

    > "Ok. I carry the gun, you shove the
    > pills down your pants. Easy"

    Above, they just had "ammo", and now they have a gun. This is confusing.

    > Javier balked. "I have to drive, and I'm not trusting you with a
    > weapon"

    "balked" is redundant - we can tell that from the dialogue.

    > "You can drive with those down your pants, it's fine" Cody waved
    > his non-chewed hand, dismissing his companions fears.

    I'm not clear on what "those" are. The pills? But Javier just referred to the weapon; this is confusing.

    "dismissing his companion's fears" is, again, redundant; we can get that information from the dialogue.

    > "Not if we get pulled over damn it!" Javier shouted, slamming his
    > fist into the back of the car seat.

    The shouting and fist-slamming seem overdramatic; an unrealistic level of emotion in dialogue is likely to break the illusion of realism.

    ChickenFreak
     
  9. Cogito

    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    May 19, 2007
    Messages:
    36,161
    Likes Received:
    2,827
    Location:
    Massachusetts, USA
    Good dialogue reflects and exposes the speaker's character. The phrasing of the character's speech will reflect, and thereby describe, the character's culture, age group, social standing, education, humor, and so on.

    The content of the dialogue can reveal complex emotions or attitudes, directly or indirectly. For example, if Janice is dropping hints about wedding dresses and meeting the family, and Michael keeps talking about slipping back to his place for a little light exercise, the reader sees each person's main interest in the relationship. And don't overlook the power of what is not said. Evading a topic speaks volumes.

    So does double meaning. If Marcia shakes Jessica's hand and wishes her all the success she deserves, is that well-wishing, or is it cloaked hostility?

    The message of a dialogue - the real message - makes dialogue fascinating. A challenge for the writer, and a delight to the reader.
     
  10. Cogito

    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    May 19, 2007
    Messages:
    36,161
    Likes Received:
    2,827
    Location:
    Massachusetts, USA
    Attention, please.

    REMINDER:

    This is not a critique thread. Please limit the discussion to the techniques of writing good dialogue. Very short examples are okay, but DO NOT critique the examples.
     
  11. Tesoro

    Tesoro Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2011
    Messages:
    2,818
    Likes Received:
    300
    Location:
    A place with no future
    That whas a great answer and really educational, thanks. I copy/pasted that to save it. :)
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice