1. lordofhats
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    lordofhats Contributing Member

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    Kosovo Declares Independence from Serbia

    Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by lordofhats, Feb 20, 2008.

    On 17 february 2008, the region of Kosovo declared its independence from the nation of Serbia causing a great deal of political fall out within the international community.

    The new nation has been recognized by multiple countries, including the US, the UK, France, Australia, and Germany. Other nations, such as Russia and Spain have refused to recognize Kosovo, while China and Mexico have expressed concern over the even. Other nations such as Canada, India, and Egypt have not expressed an opinion yet.

    What do you guys think of this?
     
  2. mammamaia
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    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

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    what i think is that it's yet another religious-war-germinated baby nation that will expect all the rest of us to support and protect it...

    the idea that every little batch of folks here or there who hate their neighbors can just say, 'hey, i know, let's start a country!' and then do so, is nonsensical to me...
     
  3. MarcG
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    MarcG Contributing Member

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    It's ironic (for me) since I'm learning about all the little ethnic groups that tried to start their own country in my history class right now.

    I can't I say I know enough of the situation - I couldn't tell you what ethnicity/religion Kosovo is, other than "albanian separatist" since that was plastered all over Yahoo news. It just bothers me since it strains relations with two countries that really stand to suffer if every group of that ilk makes their own little separatist country - Russia and China, though I can't vouch for whether or not Kosovo's reasons were strong enough. Either way, the article made it sound like they've already been running independantly since the UN intervention in the late 90's... so it doesn't seem like it's going to be much more than a formality.
     
  4. lordofhats
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    lordofhats Contributing Member

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    As hypocritical as it is for an American to say, I agree with you maia. Sperating themselves will only enhance the problems that led to their declareing independence, and maybe even a war that I know the US government will get involved with (We have enough wars right now thankyou). The people of Kosovo aren't resolving their problem by doing this I think they're making it worse.
     
  5. Raven
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    I'm not sure whether I agree or not. There are many complications with Kosovo. But its a probabilty that another war is coming. The big question is how far can we spread our soldiers before we have to ignore the matters because of the global fighting.

    Its a cruel world and one with many problems that at the moment always seem to be leading to blood shed followed by a conflict leading into a war.
     
  6. ANT (Bar YOSEF)
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    ANT (Bar YOSEF) Contributing Member

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    I dont know what to think. I believe that evryone one should have self determination, but where do we draw the line. For example there are many ethnic groups in the UK and it would be like the Pakistani community in Oldham declaring themselves a seperate nation. How can that be logical???
     
  7. Raven
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    Raven Banned

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    I think they have the right to declare independance. After all it wasn't that long ago before they were fearing for their lives as the Serbian's were only committing mass Genocide on them.

    Its a sad fact as I have steated another war could be coming. But I support anything that fights for Freedom.

    After all too many lost their lives in the name of freedom. And we all deserve the right to be free.
     
  8. lordofhats
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    lordofhats Contributing Member

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    Is declang yourself your own nation the best way to do that though? If the US African American Community had just decided to declare itself its own nation in the 50's they wouldn't be free. The US Army would have marched in leveled everything to the ground and we'd probably still have Segregation.

    Lets also not forget the US Civil War. Declaring themselves independent worked great for the Southern States.

    This is counter-productive to freedom and democracy. Don't try to compromise or resolve your problems. Just declare yourself an independent nation and hope the nation you just succeeded from doesn't decide to conquer you again. This will not solve Kosovo's social problems, this will worsen them by increasing sentiment against the native albanians in the region. Should the Serbs in northern Kosovo declare themselves their own nation?

    Every ethnic group can't just demand its own country because it doesn't like what its government is doing. If we do that the whole world degrades into anarchy and we go back the social and political forms of about 500 BC... man I feel like a hypocrite right now :(.
     
  9. Raven
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    Raven Banned

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    Well thats a matter of an opinion. You make good for the point. But these people have earned the right to declare their independance from those that did harm to them.
     
  10. PrincessGarnet
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    PrincessGarnet Contributing Member

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    I don't see the logic some people here are following that by supporting Kosovo independence this means that you support every ethnic group forming its own nation. Many nations were annexed by another more powerful nation, and have never considered themselves part of the nation they are now in.

    It's also pretty obvious why Spain, Russia etc don't support this, and it has nothing to do with Kosovo, its history and its needs and situation, but with their own nations.

    Also to add:
    The main concerns seem to be the Serbian reaction to it, not civil war in Kosovo as the vast majority want independence. I'm also not an expert on the former Yugoslavia, but that proved not to work and broke into different nations, so why can't that mean a further one. Nation states are of course man made and so I don't see a problem in new states forming if the needs of one region are conflicting and unlikely to be met.
     
  11. Raven
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    I beleive in Freedom. And I beleive that the world is changing. Its up to us to allow that change. Though I think with the kosovons its a little different. In my opinion they have earned the right to break away from those that once not so long ago raged Genocide against these people.
     
  12. mammamaia
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    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

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    the problem is, it won't stop the hatred that caused the genocide and won't stop more from taking place... now, the serbs who still live in the new nation will be fearing for their lives and most probably quite justifiably... no group's skirts are squeaky clean over there...
     
  13. lordofhats
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    lordofhats Contributing Member

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    Well, for some odd reason Serbia claims Kosovo's independence is America's fault, and all the violence serbian citizens have been commiting is also America's fault... someone find me the logic.

    Its America's Fault Apparently

    This is why I say the US should do wahtever it dang well pleases since we get blamed for crap wether we're involved or not.

    I change my mind. Let Kosovo do what they want.
     
  14. Lemex
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    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    I think this is a good thing.

    The new nation of Kosovo will have to, under UN regulations, treat all it's citizans with the basic human rights they deserve, and any wars and hostile actions against the other nations of the old Yugoslavia will be meet with sanctions and embagos from the rest of the world. Mabye this is a step on the road to peace?
     
  15. PrincessGarnet
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    I don't think that's correct, when you say Serbia claims the violence serbian citizens have commited is america's fault - the President of Serbia denounced the violence on the US and EU embassies.

    The US support of Kosovo is a major blow for Serbia and will likely increase the chance of independence, so obviously Serbia are going to criticize the US because they don't want this, but then if the the US supported Serbia, those in Kosovo would criticize the US.
     
  16. Raven
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    The US do whats needed And I for one agree with the way the US acts as does my home country the UK.

    To make peace first there must be war. Agree or disagree its the truth and always has been.
     
  17. Forkfoot
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    Forkfoot Contributing Member Contributor

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    Could someone please tell me why we're supporting Kosovo here? I don't think they have oil, do they? I know there's some reason they serve our personal interests, I just haven't been able to figure out what it is yet.
     
  18. PrincessGarnet
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    I don't like that blanket statement, wars are more publicized and remembered more than when two nations have a disagreement and then reach a compromise.

    Slovenia used to be apart of Yugoslavia and is now in the EU, so I think like other previous Yugoslavian nations if Kosovo becomes a candidate for membership and eventually a member of the EU that will result in a stable protected state - of course not going to happen over night. And of course the citizens of the EU will have to pay for the rehabilitation of the country but considering some of the other projects our money is spent on I think this would be worth it.
     
  19. lordofhats
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    lordofhats Contributing Member

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    I rest my case.

    There's oil in the Balkands but I don't know if Kosovo has any. Honestly the region is so small I don't see how it can survive as its own nation. Such a small chunk of land can't possibly have many natural resources.

    The US is probably supporting them just because of the history of the region and our own history (Declaring independence from Great Britian). Honestly I'm still waiting for the Western Union. Canada, the US, and Mexico can join the EU and we can rename our currency the Westo :).
     
  20. PrincessGarnet
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    PrincessGarnet Contributing Member

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    Interesting i would like to know what is missing from the middle of the sentence. Well anyway I was basing what i said on a speech the President of Serbia said that other day on television, denouncing the violence on the embassies, and calling for an end to it.
     
  21. lordofhats
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    lordofhats Contributing Member

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    Hmm. Perhapse. But there's these one's too and they make that missing chunk less significant:

    I don't know what we had to do with it. Someone tell me if you know.

    That ones a little more clear even with the missing bit.
     
  22. Raven
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    Wrong.
     
  23. PrincessGarnet
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    The US/NATO have already had peacekeeping troops in the country for quite sometime, and it has been functioning as a seperate nation. Declaring its self independent would make it less likely that Serbia would reclaim the land, and the peacekeeping operation could eventually end.
     
  24. mammamaia
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    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

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    you're joking, right?...

    if not, you need to take off the rose-colored glasses and see what really goes on in the world... un regs haven't stopped any member nation from denying basic human rights to their people yet, haven't kept any wars or hostile actions from happening and continuing... and embargoes haven't stopped anything, either, nor have they been honored by most of the rest of the world... a step on the road to peace?... i can't see how, with both sides still hating each other...
     
  25. lordofhats
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    lordofhats Contributing Member

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    Mammamaia is right. The UN is a joke organization that really only serves the purpose of providing an illusion of international cooperation. I don't know why it still exists. They have no power beyond imposing embargos on nations that fail to comply with their demands and no way of enforcing their embargos. Its like a government without a police force to enforce its laws.

    EDIT: I'll also add that Embargo's have proven highly ineffective in effecting change at all (Even when alot of nations agree to them), since the governments of said nations simply reaquire funding for themselves by increasign taxes, cutting bakc social programs, and trading with the many nations that always ignore embargos.

    THe UN is like the screaming child on the playground that does nothing but complain and all the other kids ignore him.
     

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