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  1. Jack Asher
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    Jack Asher Wildly experimental Contributor

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    Labor day

    Discussion in 'Debate Room' started by Jack Asher, Sep 1, 2014.

    By the way, anyone who's thanking God they got the day off, don't bother. He had fuckall to do with it.

    Thank a union member.
     
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  2. minstrel
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    minstrel Leader of the Insquirrelgency Staff Supporter Contributor

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    While this is true, remember all us poor saps who DON'T get the day off.
     
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  3. Jaro
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    Jaro Active Member

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    Yep, I'm one of those poor saps. But it's not all bad, double time-and-a-half to sit here by myself all day and write? I'll take it.
     
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  4. ddavidv
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    ddavidv Contributing Member

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    Unions, a product of a time long passed and no longer relevant for the most part. They did do a stellar job of driving production jobs out of my country, so they have done both good and bad.
     
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  5. minstrel
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    minstrel Leader of the Insquirrelgency Staff Supporter Contributor

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    Without unions, you would be paid in company scrip instead of legal tender, and you would owe your soul to the company store. Without unions, you would have a pretty good chance of never coming home from work, because workplace safety regulations would not exist.

    If you want to chase those jobs the unions "drove out of your country," go ahead and go to where they went. Live like the people who took those jobs. Best of luck.

    /threadjack
     
  6. Mike Hill
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    Mike Hill Natural born citizen of republic of Finland.

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    Unions did very much good back in the day. Nobody can question that. Still, nowadays they do more bad than good. Turning poor folks against rich folk is not going to do anybody any good.
     
  7. EdFromNY
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    EdFromNY Hope to improve with age Supporter Contributor

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    Unions did that? I think the folks who decided that they no longer needed a prosperous middle class as protection against communism and began to systematically drive down the standard of living might have had a little something to do with it.
     
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  8. outsider
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    outsider Contributing Member Contributor

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  9. ddavidv
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    ddavidv Contributing Member

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    This thread really should be in the debate forum. The OP threw a grenade out there, so I don't feel too bad about expressing my opinions here until (I suspect) it gets locked.

    Yes, we can point to the many things unions accomplished over the years, but much of it has been replaced or backed up by regulations (to an almost ridiculous level, frankly). OSHA is a prime example. It's all about protecting the worker, but has also become a red tape machine that drives up the cost of doing business. Taking the bad with the good, as it were.

    Where unions failed in my view was becoming too greedy and too arrogant. Striking no longer was a tool to effect change where very big problems were (workplace safety, slave wages, excessive hours). Instead, it became a tool of extortion to get higher pay (for everyone, regardless of performance), benefits of a level I can only dream about, and pensions that were unsustainable. The UAW was wonderfully effective at one of my local plants: they went on strike every single time a contract was up for renewal. The company decided to no longer bow to the extortion and closed the plant, shipping all the jobs to Mexico where they still are today. This is not a recent occurrence; this happened in the 1980s. The huge plant is now mostly a warehouse that employs only a fraction of the number of people at jobs paying maybe a third of what the union 'talent' got.

    Unions giving blanket protection to incompetency is vividly illustrated in the book Rivethead. I encourage anyone interested in the subjects of unions or American manufacturing to read it. It's an embarrassment for everyone, including the author IMO.

    I could go on, but union apologists will never concede their view that unions are still relevant and continuing to do good. The dwindling membership numbers suggest otherwise.
     
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  10. EdFromNY
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    EdFromNY Hope to improve with age Supporter Contributor

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    Actually, I think unions are needed more now than at any time since the 1880s, despite the abuses of the past.
     
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  11. Jack Asher
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    Jack Asher Wildly experimental Contributor

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    I didn't troll bomb the forum. Just pointed out that the existence of labor day was solely due to the existence of unions, and suggested that readers thank a union member. I did.

    If you want to go off on the merits of unions, you'll find the "start a new thread" button on the upper right of the debate room.
     
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  12. Cogito
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    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    I agree. This thread was posted here as a lit rag in a bottle of gasoline, and should be closed or moved to the Debate Room.

    Really?
    Ookey, never mind. Nothing inflammatory about this...
     
  13. minstrel
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    minstrel Leader of the Insquirrelgency Staff Supporter Contributor

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    This thread is now in the Debate Room.
     
  14. Garball
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    Garball Sometimes nothing can be a real cool hand. Supporter Contributor

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    So, do we automatically go down the "religion is stupid" path or do we find a way to make it a misogynist thread? Maybe i should just go ahead and Godwin it now.
     
  15. Jack Asher
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    Jack Asher Wildly experimental Contributor

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    I think we can bring evolution into this as well, why not?
     
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  16. Duchess-Yukine-Suoh
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    Duchess-Yukine-Suoh Girl #21 Contributor

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    I don't mean this unkindly, but how does evolution have anything to do with Labor Day?

    EDIT: I understand the joke now.
     
  17. Garball
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    Garball Sometimes nothing can be a real cool hand. Supporter Contributor

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    Ah yes, abortion in evolution as seen through the eyes of a fundamental Christian male. What could possibly go wrong?
     
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