Lack of "strong" female characters?

There is always Hayao Miyazaki - most of his films have incredibly strong women and girls in the lead. Kiki's Delivery Service is my favourite. Don't think he has a film without a strong women in it and can only think of Porco Rosso which has a male MC.

EDIT Others: Jo March, Elizabeth Bennett, Heidi, Helen Burns, Jane Eyre, Agnes Grey, Tess Durbeville, Lady Macbeth, Portia, Queen Esther and Ruth from the Bible, Mary Magdalene, Athena, Juno, Hera etc, Rose McQuinn, Temperence Brennan, Jane Tennison, Natalie Holden, The Inspector in Juliet Bravo, Felicity Good, Margot Leadbetter, June (from Terry and June), Margery Whitaker, Mrs Slocombe, Geraldine Granger, Miss Marple, Ma Boswell, Ria Parkinson, Becky Sharp, Anne Shirley, Mary Poppins, Queen Marlene, She-Ra/Princess Adora, Teela, Cheetara, Mavis the Fairy, Stephanie, Trixie and Bessie from LazyTown, Atomic Betty, Winnie the Witch, Ace, Rose, Martha and Donna, Sarah Jane Smith, Maria, Rani, Mildred Hubble, The Poppy Chronicles, Biddy Millican, Emma Harte, Sister Mary Clarence, Susan and Lucy Pevensie, Jill Pole ... and I could go on. Remind me again where we lack good strong female characters I've covered as many eras, medium and genres as I could think of?

 

I think the reason for this is for PC and maybe just even to get angry people off your back, if you write about a female and she is always needing to be saved then your sexist and then you got females complaning about "we are just as tough as you" now if you ave a strong female, your trying to be PC with the females and get the wrath of the females who say "not very lady like"
and the guys who's manhood has just been challenged


You can't win!
why even try then?

or at least thats how i see it

why make a Female that will just cause your book to not be sold and or boycotted?

It's much easy to make a guy because
if he is weak its okay
if he is tough its okay
if he needs to be saved no one cry "sexist"

You don't have to worry about PC

 

I agree with everything you're saying here and want feedback about a story I told in a previous post. I mentioned that I was impressed by a news program I saw about I believe, the Nigerian, civil war. It was heinous, weird, and extrmely bloody until the women got tired of it. Women from both sides got together and form human walls to stop the gun fire, and then brought the who thing to a conclusion.

For me, you can't get any stronger than that, yet the women didn't fire a gun, swing a sword, ect. That made me think about realistic and strong women in fantasy/SF who are usually killing and beating in a masculine way. So, what's you're opinion about revamping female heroes and having them act not as men do but as brave women do in the real world?

 

We already have both - fantasy/sf is not in the real world. Men in a lot of fantasy and sci fi do not behave in normal ways either.

My women in books don't have any special powers the men don't have - and tend to behave like normal women, but then they fit with the men in my stories. However I don't get what is wrong having Superman, Lara Croft, Batman, She-Ra, etc They have their place. Pern has strong women Menolly was one I had forgotten from the list. Narnia has some great ones, Terry Pratchett is good, the Hayao Myzaki films are stuffed with them. Princess Leia in Star Wars.

My contention with your arguement is merely that they already exist if you read and watch the right things. The Nigerian conflict was appalling and the women amazing but then similar women have existed and been written about through history. There have been examples of women in the real world using 'superpowers' to get things done for centuries some who kill, beat up and function in a masculine way - Joan of Arc, Boudicca and the Red Lady come to mind.

 

This topic, about 5'2" women kicking the crap out of giant men is all over the internet. You're attempting to invalidate the complaints and so I view your comments as invalid.

I'm not trying to be mean but to point out you can't just say something isn't true when intelligent people observe that it is and can provide examples.

 

I am not invalidating anyones complaints my point is these unrealistic characters exist alongside other more realistic examples of strong female characters. I gave you a list above of many amazing female characters with different kinds of strengths and abilities, variety of dress. Just like you have realistic strong male characters existing alongside cartoon versions like Superman, He-Man, Batman, Dr Who, Captain Jack Harkness etc

For your story of the Nigerian conflict perhaps you can tell me why you think the historical genre lacks strong female characters of the realistic variety ?

Just I think Catherine Parr was amazing, Elizabeth I, Joan of Arc, Anne Hathaway (although Mrs Shakespeare was one kinky if fun book), Boudicca, Hildegarde Von Bingen, the many women involved in the removal of the Apartheid, Rosa Parks etc All have had books written about them. Orson Scott Card did a nice job on Women of Genesis. Bloduedd, Isolde, Guinevere even Maid Marian. Queen of Teuta.

At the risk of using John Barrowman again - he got his bits out on radio if you look round the internet you would think it was a major scandal. When actually ONE person complained - I am wondering how many complaints they got that the web cam wasn't working.

 

oh and my list above provided several fantasy/sci fi strong women:

Menolly (the other McCaffrey womne), Queen Marlene, Uhuru, Princess Leia, The gazillion from the Ghibli films, Suikoden (games and books) has several, Susan and Lucy Pevensie, Aunt Polly, Jill Pole, Granny Weatherwax (the other Pratchett women), She-Ra/Princess Adora, Teela, Cheetara, Dr Crusher, Deanna Troy, Sarah Jane Smith (Maria and Rani), Fanny and Bessie from the Faraway Tree, what was the girl in ET called ?, Anthea and Jane from Five Children and It. Ace (Rose, Martha and Donna- oh and definitely River Song), Toshiko Sato. Mildred Hubble, Lyra from the Pullman books. Winnie the Witch. Perelandra.

Those are just the ones off the top of my head and Sci-Fi and Fantasy is one of my seriously under read and watched genres. What about all the amazing women characters that have existed since almost the beginning of literature itself - Eve and Lillith are great. There is more than fantasy, literary fiction and sci-fi out there

 

I agree with your definition completely. But it is, shall we say, a somewhat cerebral one. There are many areas if fiction in which "strong" might be considered to include physical strength and the willingness to use it. Hence my comment about Atticus Finch not being a "warrior".

But "strong character" could also be construed to mean one who dominates the work.

 

Oh wow, I just looked at the thread first time since I posted it and now I've only read 3 pages... didn't manage yet to read all of it, but I'll fetch later.

There's just one thing I'd like to clearify: My definition of "strong" is given quite exactly if you read the article from the link in the first post.
Trying to sum it up: "Strong" IMO does not mean physical strength, neither does it refer to a character who is like... well, like this "oh I'm soo tough" kind of type.
Strong means to me, first of all, a credible, authentic portrait of a person who fascinates people with his/her remarkable personality. Strong not in case of the character itself, but in case of his/her effect on the audience. And as I said, especially looking for someone who is authentic but cool and makes people laugh, there's absolutely a lack of women.

Let's have a look at Elisabeth from Pirates of the Caribbean, for example (someone mentioned her, I think):
Actually, I really (and I mean REALLY) hate her. She's the daughter of a rich and powerful man, wearing beautiful dresses and looking sooooo pretty. And pretty rich young lady is in love with a beautiful perfect young man who is, unfortunately, not an aristocrat. Let's think, didn't I read/see something very similar before? Ah, right, at least 9287439272 times. Booooring. To make it even worse, as the story proceeds, pampered Elisabeth suddenly becomes strong and brave for NO logical reason. Oh yeah, and she fights like a fencing master. Of course. And they tried to let her be funny, gave her a few lame disney-kids-movie-like puns, but she is NOT. She's just too perfect. Rich and beautiful and smart and quick-witted and strong and fights and ... blah blah, I mean, c'mon
She's nearly a Mary Sue -.-
Jack got most of the fans and I think that's not only because of Johnny Depp. He's a drunk, and he's strange, a lazy sponger, betrays his friends from time to time, quite selfish and often he's pretty disgusting (like the thing with his bad breath). Considering that this is a plot-based Disney movie that's a well developed character compared to the others, in my opinion. And despite all those bad character traits, people love this protagonist because he's fun.


Strong and fascinating female characters for me:
Lisbeth Salander (Stieg Larsson movie, Swedish one, "The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo")
Elliot, Denise/Jo, Carla (Scrubs)
Loony Lovegood (Harry Potter) and maybe Herminoe, too
Unfortunately, that's all I can think of for now...

 

I've listed plenty more in various posts there was actually a female pirate (aristocrat) called Elizabeth something. I could go on and list hundreds of strong credible female characters going back to the early beginnings of literature

I just have no issue with fantasy characters or romantic characters etc either I think all kinds have their place.

 

Isn't a strong personality just any personality that takes the lead from time to time? For me, a weak personality is one that looks to be led instead of leading all the time, that is frightened by the very possibility of having to figure something out for him/her/itself. It doesn't really matter whether the task at hand is defeating an army or making an omlette. I'm in charge here. Pass the spoon.

 

What constitutes a strong character is certainly open to a lot of subjectivity. Some feminists still sneer at women who stay home and run the household, even though it's one of the most demanding professions a person can choose. By the original post, one could almost expect a strong female character must have the tenacity and capacity for violence of John Rambo.

But I think most will agree that a character who constantly depends on others to rescue her (or him) is not a strong character. The airhead who runs away from the damaged moron in the hockey mask, screaming incessantly so the pursuer will know exactly where to find her, is not a strong character. The boss who bullies and intimidates his employees so they won't notice how chronically fearful he really is is not a strong character either.

Do men and women exhibit strength differently? I personally don't think they do so inherently, although there are social factors that statistically show up as differences between male and female behavior. In other words, I reject the "men are from Mars, women are from Venus" stereotypes, at least when applied to individuals, even if there is some justification when you speak of social aggregates.

To me, a strong character is one who stands by his or her personal beliefs of what is right, rather than what someone else tries to impose. So the woman who silently supports her husband whn he is accused of criminal behavior can be a strong character, if her ideals are to honor the vows of their relationship no matter what, even if I personally might respect her more if she turned her back on him the moment she knew he was guilty of the crimes he is accused of.

 

For me a strong character in fiction is a someone who has an expressed will, and who's will and actions do matter, make a difference and are allowed to drive the story.

Sam in LotR is a strong character, he not very kickass, but his actions and what he wanted drove the story forward.
A very competent Bond chick kicking down a guards, acting side kick, but who will and actions and will doesn't affect the story isn't a strong character, she just scenery.

 

A list of DVDs you should check out:

Fringe
LOST
Alias

J.J. Abrams has thing for strong female leads. I suppose Jack was the lead in LOST...but that was ABC's call. Kate is still a very Strong character in that show.