1. Halcyon
    Offline

    Halcyon Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2010
    Messages:
    510
    Likes Received:
    23
    Location:
    England

    Lake District Shootings...

    Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by Halcyon, Jun 2, 2010.

    Hi guys

    I've just been following the news stories here in the UK today of a lone gunman in the Lake District (North-West England) who is believed to have shot at least 30 people at random, with several fatalities. It is also now believed that the man, named as Derrick Bird, 52, has turned the weapon on himself and committed suicide.

    The UK has some of the strictest gun ownership laws in the Western world, following the massacre of 16 little schoolchildren and a teacher in Dunblane, Scotland, back in 1996 by Thomas Hamilton, and the killing of a similar number of people by Michael Ryan in Hungerford, England, several years earlier. It's now a very rare event on these shores, much more so than in the USA, but it shows that if someone is determined enough, and unbalanced enough, they can still cause massive grief and carnage.

    RIP, all innocent victims of this latest atrocity. :(
     
    1 person likes this.
  2. Wreybies
    Offline

    Wreybies The Ops Pops Operations Manager Staff Contest Administrator Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    May 1, 2008
    Messages:
    18,915
    Likes Received:
    10,108
    Location:
    Puerto Rico
    That is very sad news indeed.

    Where I live the control laws go often ignored as cultural preference supersedes the law. Such violence is painfully common here. This year, the problem was so bad that one of the local news programs had a "count up," so to speak from the first of the year to indicate how many gun related deaths had occurred as of the given date. As of the 5th of Jan 2010, the last time I bothered to watch, the number was up to forty. My island is 100 miles long by 35 miles high.
     
  3. Humour Whiffet
    Offline

    Humour Whiffet Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2009
    Messages:
    188
    Likes Received:
    10
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    That’s awful.

    It’s also awful that if he hadn’t killed himself, the U.K.’s liberal laws on punishment would have meant that he would almost certainly have got out of jail had he been able to show that he was no longer a danger to the public.

    I see Al megrahi is still alive, too.

    Sometimes showing too much compassion for a criminal is, in itself, immoral.
     
  4. Halcyon
    Offline

    Halcyon Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2010
    Messages:
    510
    Likes Received:
    23
    Location:
    England
    Interesting Wreybies.

    I know little of Puerto Rico, I must admit, but often things like poverty, drugs and guns go sadly hand in hand.

    Mercifully, there is no real "gun culture" here in the UK. Indeed, the tightening of the laws after Dunblane were pretty much in response to public demand. It's very different to the "right to bear arms" that is so ingrained in the American psyche, and as a consequence, we don't have to go through this very often.

    But it just means that it's even bigger news when it does happen.
     
  5. Cogito
    Offline

    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    May 19, 2007
    Messages:
    35,935
    Likes Received:
    2,043
    Location:
    Massachusetts, USA
    Narcissistic cowardice. People who decide to run away from life, but have to make a bloody billboard of NOTICE ME! on the way out.

    Do us all a favor, if you feel these urges. Kill yourself FIRST instead of LAST.
     
  6. Dante Dases
    Offline

    Dante Dases Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2008
    Messages:
    3,446
    Likes Received:
    142
    Location:
    West Yorkshire, England
    We have the toughest jail sentences and most imprisonable offences in Western Europe. And I guarantee he would have got the whole life tariff, just like whoever is found guilty of the Bradford murders will.
     
  7. Humour Whiffet
    Offline

    Humour Whiffet Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2009
    Messages:
    188
    Likes Received:
    10
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    It’s just terrible to think of all of those families whose lives are now ruined.
     
  8. Humour Whiffet
    Offline

    Humour Whiffet Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2009
    Messages:
    188
    Likes Received:
    10
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    I'm a lawyer, and I beg to differ on both counts. I hope you're right on the Bradford point. But if the Lockerbie bomber can get out then anyone can.
     
  9. Lemex
    Offline

    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2007
    Messages:
    10,507
    Likes Received:
    3,151
    Location:
    Northeast England
    For some people it's not about Narcissism - but more a lack of conscious logic and a regression to basic, animalistic antagonism. People who suffer a complete mental collapse will not heed your words.
     
    1 person likes this.
  10. Cogito
    Offline

    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    May 19, 2007
    Messages:
    35,935
    Likes Received:
    2,043
    Location:
    Massachusetts, USA
    I don't buy it. These are people who decide, "This is the day I will die, and I'm going to take as many other people with me as I can. They will remember me now!"

    These are people who plan it, stock up on ammunitions, maybe bring a spare weapon or two, and make a choice to go out in a blaze of glory.
     
  11. Lemex
    Offline

    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2007
    Messages:
    10,507
    Likes Received:
    3,151
    Location:
    Northeast England
    And those few who I discribed simply don't think.
     
  12. hiddennovelist
    Offline

    hiddennovelist Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2009
    Messages:
    10,256
    Likes Received:
    161
    Location:
    Fabulous Sin City
    That's terrible. It really makes me sick that there are people out there who do things like that...
     
  13. Wreybies
    Offline

    Wreybies The Ops Pops Operations Manager Staff Contest Administrator Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    May 1, 2008
    Messages:
    18,915
    Likes Received:
    10,108
    Location:
    Puerto Rico
    Regardless of the why, some good, hardworking, utterly undeserving people have woken to the worst day of their lives as they reap the results of this persons actions.

    My heart goes out to them for their loss at the hands of someone who did not understand the value of their lives.
     
    1 person likes this.
  14. Lemex
    Offline

    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2007
    Messages:
    10,507
    Likes Received:
    3,151
    Location:
    Northeast England
    I thought exactly the same thing when I first turned on the news and heard this story.
     
  15. Halcyon
    Offline

    Halcyon Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2010
    Messages:
    510
    Likes Received:
    23
    Location:
    England
    Just to update, the death toll from this now stands at 13, including the gunman himself, with a few more critically injured and not expected to survive.

    I'm not a religious man, but someone deserves to burn in Hell tonight.
     
  16. Eunoia
    Offline

    Eunoia Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2010
    Messages:
    4,395
    Likes Received:
    80
    Location:
    England
    This is terrible. :( I hate it when things like this happen.
     
  17. Gallowglass
    Offline

    Gallowglass Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    May 2, 2009
    Messages:
    1,617
    Likes Received:
    88
    Location:
    Loch na Seilg, Alba
    The most annoying thing is how the Daily Mail comment boards seem to use this as a good excuse to hold a more gun laws vs. less gun laws debate, with the obvious jingoism that comes with it.

    Thankfully, the last shooting spree was more than ten years ago, as was the one before it. There's nothing new that this one can tell us; a further ban on guns will be useless. Let's move on.
     
  18. Dante Dases
    Offline

    Dante Dases Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2008
    Messages:
    3,446
    Likes Received:
    142
    Location:
    West Yorkshire, England
    Three shooting sprees in the history of modern Britain. That's all. I'm not one to say that this is necessarily a good thing, because ideally that three would be none, but when you compare that to America, where there seems to be a shooting spree once a year or so, we don't do so badly, and gun control laws work their purpose extremely well.

    Apparently the death toll stands at twelve (not including the gunman) with at least three more in a critical condition in hospital and twenty-some more injured. My housemate is from the region affected, so he's more than a little shaken by what's happened.
     
  19. Epsilon
    Offline

    Epsilon Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2010
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Liverpool, England, UK
    I agree - often there are few indications to suggest these people are clinically insane. They just want to go out in a blaze of glory, and they'll just detach themselves from the horrible acts they're committing.
     
  20. Lemex
    Offline

    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2007
    Messages:
    10,507
    Likes Received:
    3,151
    Location:
    Northeast England
    Tell that to Fred West.
     
  21. Epsilon
    Offline

    Epsilon Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2010
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Liverpool, England, UK
    You've completely missed the point. Re-read the post I quoted.
     
  22. Mercurial
    Offline

    Mercurial Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2009
    Messages:
    3,453
    Likes Received:
    117
    I do believe that's one of the most tactless and misguided statements you have ever posted. And to people who this may apply to (which is not as uncommon as one might think), it is also a statement that is extremely offensive and possibly triggering.

    The human psyche is exceptionally complex, and we dont even have a handle yet on all of its mechanisms. Just because the majority of us enjoy a somewhat mentally balanced existance does not mean that we are justified in expressing hatred toward our sicker brothers and sisters. The key is prevention --not spouting half-concocted blame games after the fact. That helps no one.

    xx

    My heart goes out to all the victims who have passed away today, including the gunman. Perhaps moreso, though, I am sorry for those closest to the deceased who are grieving and must experience the aftermath.
     
  23. Lemex
    Offline

    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2007
    Messages:
    10,507
    Likes Received:
    3,151
    Location:
    Northeast England
    No I did not at all - shall I requote?

    "often there are few indications to suggest these people are clinically insane."

    And there are many cases where clinical insanity is clear for anyone to see, so long as you bother to look. Sadly, cases where insanity in a person is clear and are ignored for one reason or another is rather common. A lot of the time these people are ignored by the very people who are paid to see these signs, such as Lee Harvey Oswald.

    "They just want to go out in a blaze of glory, and they'll just detach themselves from the horrible acts they're committing."

    Again, not true. To use my own example, Fred West delighted in what he did. And Fred West is not an isolated case by any means.
     
  24. Epsilon
    Offline

    Epsilon Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2010
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Liverpool, England, UK
    I said re-read the post I QUOTED, Cogito's post, which said
    Columbine shooting is an example
    totally different to Fred West who took perverse pleasure in what he was doing because he never planned to be caught. It was a habit for him. People who go into a crowded public place to shoot people are fully aware that their demise will likely come on the same day.
     
  25. Lemex
    Offline

    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2007
    Messages:
    10,507
    Likes Received:
    3,151
    Location:
    Northeast England
    I know - I'm just stating why I disagree with Cog's post and your own. Cog made presumptions on the character of the lake district murderer, I was pointing out that this is unwise, as it may not be the case; and it was a little insensitive.
     

Share This Page