1. Haliburton
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    Haliburton Member

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    Leave me alone!

    Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by Haliburton, May 30, 2013.

    Hi- Haliburton here. It is a new day and I had a long talk with my therapist. I will try not to bring up topics in the future that might cause alarm.
     
  2. jannert
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    jannert Contributing Member Supporter Contributor

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    I'm not sure where you've coming from on this, but I would suspect, if a person really wants to die, they probably aren't phoning the police or a crisis centre beforehand. I imagine the people who answer these phones assume the person on the other end is asking for help. But I'm just winging this answer off the top of my head.
     
  3. killbill
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    killbill Contributing Member

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    where the mind is without fear...
    If people can be killed as punishment, why can't one take his/her own life (probably as punishment)? Food for thought. This doesn't mean I support those who kill themselves because their girlfriend/boyfriend dump them.
     
  4. Webster
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    Webster Senior Member

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    People should be allowed to make up their own minds about anything. The question for me is what are they basing their assumptions on? If someone wants to commit suicide, they had better be certain that their existential crisis has revealed the absolute truth about the nature of reality, and that this truth is common to every single material object in the universe,and that there is no other point of view that can challenge theirs with equal validity. The Sunset Limited by Cormac McCarthy explores this more expertly than I.

    The way you framed your question is worryingly ambiguous, Haliburton. If you are referring to yourself, please don't pull innocent forum members into it.

    As far as suicide due to severe terminal illness goes, that's again for the individual to decide. Then it becomes a question of dignity, practicality, consideration for loved ones, and so forth.

    I'm struck by how many young people ideate suicide. What is it about our culture that has led to this state affairs?
     
  5. mammamaia
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    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

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    i fully intend to exercise my inherent right to decide when to leave life... that's one of the main reasons i chose oregon when i had to return to living in the states, though preferring to remain an ex-pat, since it allows assisted suicide... i find it appallingly 'big brother'ish for governments to force people to live in pain, or unable to function as humans, or in a total vegetable state, piling up horrendous hospital bills that will bankrupt their loved ones... if for religious reasons, that's supposedly against the us constitution... and where in the bible does it say suicide is a sin, anyway?...

    that said, i would do all in my power to dissuade teenagers from taking their own lives... same goes for adults who are healthy, but simply in a temporary depressed state, since they still have a chance to enjoy life and make a worthwhile contribution to the world...
     
  6. huntsman40
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    huntsman40 Active Member

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    The basic right of choice on your own fate is fine in principle, but I don’t think its right that everyone should be just left alone to leap off buildings or slash their wrists on a whim. Many people have been known to make a rash choice to kill themselves while in an unbalanced state of mind, and I don’t think anyone in that sort of state should be just left to do it.

    Certainly people with good causes like sickness and pain should have the choice if their lives will not stand a chance of improving, but I think leaving a healthy person to just end their life would be a poor choice. Very often those people don’t feel the same way six months later, and definitely if their reasons for killing themselves were caused by events like a breakup of a relationships or loss of a job for example.

    Is this for a writing project, or is the OP considering this? I’m kind of unsure about the OP’s intent with their post. I had a friend kill themselves about seventeen years ago, and I still have trouble forgiving them for it. Suicide leaves a lot of guilt and pain with anyone that loves that person, and so I personally find suicide a fairly selfish act, and definitely if its someone young and healthy. But, hey that’s my personal opinion.
     
  7. erebh
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    erebh Contributing Member Contributor

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    While the right to die should be down to the individual I thing the OP is wondering why people who answer phones to others are show an urge to jump, think they have the right to talk them out of it and I have to agree with Jannert.

    If they want to jump they are not looking for someone to give them a push - they are looking for a reason not to.
     
  8. erebh
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    erebh Contributing Member Contributor

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    Just wondering about the OP's motive for this question and the connection to the title of the post... Is it a personal plea or research or just a lounge question?
     
  9. GingerCoffee
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    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    And those who are prevented from suicide who are later grateful the act was interrupted, what say you about that inconvenient fact?

    Senseless deaths are just that, senseless.

    Now, if you want to be more specific and say that someone in chronic pain near the end of their life anyway wants to take an active part in their death, then sure, we shouldn't prevent all suicides as a matter of dogma, anymore than we should assume all suicides are faultless choices.
     
  10. killbill
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    killbill Contributing Member

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    where the mind is without fear...
    I assumed it's just a lounge question, but the OP's silence is making me really worried.
     
  11. shadowwalker
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    shadowwalker Contributing Member Contributor

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    Have to say that if someone calls a hotline, they're asking for help in not committing suicide, so the question is rather strange. If you don't want help, don't call, and then nobody will try to dissuade you. Otherwise you're basically giving them permission to interfere.

    Having been there, done that, I'm not sure 'grateful' is how I feel, even years later. In fact, I'm still a bit angry about it. But now I'm just waiting rather ambivalently for death - when it happens, however it happens, it will be more of a "Finally!" type thing for me.
     
  12. Webster
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    Webster Senior Member

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    Yes, it is worrying. On a site like this, filled with artistic, sensitive people, this sort of thing will happen. But unless anyone knows how to go about find his location we're powerless. I would urge anyone worried to send him a private message of support.

    I know it might sound hard hearted, but anyone viewing this thread with similar thoughts (assuming Haliburton meant what we hope he didn't mean), please refrain from posting them. I should think there are members here who like to visit this forum because it offers them a refuge from the unpleasant things in their everyday lives. I for one am one of them. Having said that, my inbox is there for anyone, for what it's worth. I'm not a professional in any field whatsoever, I hasten to add. And I'm not Mr.Warm-and-Fuzzy either... Well, sometimes
    I am.
     
  13. Anthony Martin
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    Anthony Martin Active Member

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    It's very tempting to delve into parts of each post above, especially shadowwalker, but I won't given the ambiguity of the OP (that is, it is unclear if OP wants to start a discussion about suicide or to send a message. I do hope for the former).
     
  14. Webster
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    Webster Senior Member

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    Why? Because you've got the full low down?
     
  15. jannert
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    jannert Contributing Member Supporter Contributor

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    this is all very weird...
     
  16. Anthony Martin
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    Anthony Martin Active Member

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    Hardly. I see potential in a discussion about some of the insightful perspectives on suicide shared above but I'm not sure that this is the right place.
     
  17. Webster
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    Webster Senior Member

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    You're right. But it wasn't the place for the gentleman in question to drop his bombshell, but he did, and now we have to process it. I can't speak for everyone here, but no doubt it'll come up when I'm talking to friends in the coming days. See how these things cause ripples? But again, as you say, this isn't the place for this kind of thing. I'm done with this thread.
     
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  18. Mckk
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    Mckk Moderator Staff Supporter Contributor

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    The people at the call centres etc are not simply doing their "duty" - at risk of sounding cliche, they probably care. Just look at the mood of this thread, look at the fear, the responses, the worries - the idea that any human being should want to end their lives, that they are in such a dark place, disturbs all of us. It makes us want to reach out, restore hope to that person because we still believe there's something to live for. It's human to care for each other - if you care enough to drop a penny into a homeless man's hat, you care enough to cry at a tragic movie because you can't stand a broken heart, even the broken heart of a fictional person, you care enough to do anything kind to a stranger - why is it so absurd that there's someone who would care enough to try to pull an individual out of their abyss?

    It's not about duty. It's about clinging onto what is good, and to see someone letting go because he/she has lost all hope - it is terrifying, and tragic, and we know, deep down, it is not good. There's a part in all of us that wants to restore, that wants to see things renewed, reborn, that somehow doesn't want to see someone else in such a dark place because we fear that dark place ourselves. We see the danger and want to pull that person out. It's instinct.

    It is our choice, I guess, in the end, but what I forever think of is: how the world has lost someone beautiful, someone incredible, someone magnificent. I remember recently there were news articles about a young man who ended his life after a lifetime of depression in his 30s. The articles spoke of what the young lad was like - that he was so sensitive that he always knew who was in need within the room, and he would be the first person to go and try and cheer that person up. He always knew when someone was hurting, and came there to try and heal and comfort. What a precious gem of a soul. What a gift to this world and the people around him. And now he's gone, and what for?

    So that's what I say. I think there's a lot of good people can do, and a lot of treasures people can give, and there are so many whose lives are just that little bit brighter because of you. So don't leave this world. You're more precious than you know.
     
  19. ChaosReigns
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    ChaosReigns Be Still and Know Contributor

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    There is two sides of this argument, and ive been through one side, the hurt and pain it causes to get you to the point that you just want to leave (And even now over a year later, it still resides deep in my core). i am thankful to those who helped me when i was in need, but on the other side, if i ever find myself in a way that means i cant fend for myself, i just want to be allowed to leave this world in peace, issue is, the UK have a law against assisted suicide
     
  20. Haliburton
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    Haliburton Member

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    I am sorry if I scared people or made you uncomfortable. I will try to learn the proper ettiquete for posting on this truly wonderful forum.
    Haliburton
     
  21. Cogito
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    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    Camus considered the morality of suicide to be the deepest of philosophical questions.

    My personal perspective is that there is a difference between threatening suicide (contacting a hotline falls into this category) and quietly arranging it. The former is nearly always a manipulative, selfish act that nevertheless cannot be ignored. The person who fails to stop it is left with a burden of guilt, and sometimes that is exactly what the one threatening suicide wants, whether the person actually intended to go through with it or merely miscalculated.

    For the record, I was once very involved in the abuse and recovery community, and as such was a party to more than a few suicide interventions. Despite my feelings about the act, I would never do less than give 100% to save the person, even if that meant betraying that person's trust.
     
  22. TerraIncognita
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    TerraIncognita Aggressively Nice Person Contributor

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    This is what I was thinking. Having been suicidal myself at multiple extremely low points in my life I'd say when you call someone you are looking for a reason to keep going.


    I do think it's disgusting to force people to keep living if they are ready to go. I know it's difficult to let go I also believe it's selfish not to. If I had been a lot older when I had my diagnosis and the treatment I had to go through to get well again I am certain I would have been completely alright with leaving it be and dying. The amount of suffering I've had to endure is an appalling amount to expect someone who is nearing the end of their life to go through for the sake of adding a few more years. I had so many days I wanted to die. I can't imagine enduring that sort of suffering at an age where I am ready to move on. I do not blame anyone who wants to be put out of their misery in those situations.

    Definitely. My teenage years were some of the worst in my entire life. It does get better. It feels like things will never become clear or be alright but in the end things work out. I'm thankful I had people who sort of shook me (figuratively speaking) and reminded me I can still have a fruitful and happy life. Sometimes you have to go through hell to reach happiness. My life is far from perfect and there are lots of things in it that are very trying. Chronic pain is extremely difficult to live with but I'm learning I can still have happiness and good things in my life. Sometimes losing big things makes you much more appreciative of small things. Moments like that in your life can really be make or break and I'm so very thankful I had people in my life who encouraged me so it was a defining moment that brought about much good in my life. I am a much more well rounded person spiritually, mentally, and emotionally because of the very trials that brought me to my knees.
     
  23. jazzabel
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    jazzabel Contributing Member Contributor

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    Because as @jannert said. Also, the real physical illnesses of depression and psychosis can compel people to commit suicide, but with a few weeks of treatment, the illness lifts, and the patient and his or her family are very grateful for the help.

    Generally, people who are serious in trying to kill themselves, don't tell anything to anyone, they choose a lethal method and just do it. Those who call for help are asking for help, even though their words might be communicating a different message. It's a peculiarity but it is what it is.

    As far as the follow-up reply from the OP, it's evident he is stating this in a passive-aggressive way, designed to cause a reaction. I won't speculate any further than this, but many forums have a policy of banning members who threaten suicide or otherwise create this type of crisis through a forum. Not because they don't matter, but because the very thing that feeds this kind of behaviour is soliciting concern from others, which only reinforces the self-destructive behaviour and it becomes a never-ending vicious cycle.
     
  24. jannert
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    jannert Contributing Member Supporter Contributor

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    Good you're okay, Haliburton. I think you had a lot of us quite worried...
     
  25. TerraIncognita
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    TerraIncognita Aggressively Nice Person Contributor

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    It happens. Glad to hear you're doing better. :)
     

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