There are many facets I'm exploring in this "fantasy Christian" world. For example, I had an idea for an epilogue that wrapped the entire idea of all the themes my story cuts across. I read it to my wife when she got home--and because she knows the complete story--she got misty on me. I must admit, I agree with Gonissa on a number of levels. And there's a part of me that also delights when I say, "Attention Christian readers, meet your new standard bearer..." So if you're expecting singing nuns and altruistic heroes that fight for all of the right reasons, I suggest your look elsewhere. In 1979 I was reading Housman's ‘Epitaph on an Army of Mercenaries’ and listening to a lot of Meat Loaf's "Bat Out Of Hell." After breaking up with a tall red-headed disco queen I realized I had no firm relationship with God. And I began to pray. Ever the showman, I thought, "Ya' know, there's a book in that!" Not a singing nun for miles. I hope I made Gonissa smile.
By all means, write the Christianity you know and love, and leave the stereotypes in the ditch. Or leave one or two in, but make it clear they don't represent your mainstream. Keep the flawed people who seek comfort and direction from their God and their faith. Keep the nun who took the vows to escape her past, but found something more substantial in her service. They are real people, or at least a mirror of some real people. Not heroes, not villains, yet not ordinary either. Or keep whatever people who drive your story. Your passion will breathe life into the story. Write it for you, and don't worry about the Christian bashers. No matter what you write about, you can't please everyone. So be true to you.
Other than a few Americanized views of a monarchy, my story has very few stereotypes, hence my concerns. Granted, you cannot escape the spiritual flavor, but I don't want the reader to dump the book during the first chapter. In fact, part of the overall arc is salvation for guys like me. When you consider the storytelling nuggets of the plotlines we might drag behind us, I think it might be a richer form of Christian literature. BTW, after reading the responses here I no longer fear Christian bashing. I have big shoulders, but I didn't want that issue to hinder learning things from more established writers. Nor did I want to be pigeon-holed. Who knows, maybe I'll be the first one to write a really worthwhile vampire novel.
i'm a total non-believer in any sort of god or religion, but i still mentor writers who are religious and even write religion-based works... and my practical/logical view of life and the universe doesn't hamper me in the least from being able to help the most devout christian, or jew, or moslem, or buddhist or hindu, or whatever, improve their story/book and become a better writer... and, in fact, among the many thousands of mentees and clients i've worked with over the years, you'll find all of the above... so, as someone above said, tourist, just write your book and stop worrying about it! love and hugs, maia
So what you're saying is... people have a right to not like a book because of its themes, but you don't want people to put down your book just because of its themes? That, sir, strikes as wanting to have your cake and eat it Would you want to be dishonest and hide the fact that your book has a Christian message just to get more people to read it, and then have them say afterwards 'well, I wouldn't have read it if I'd known it was going to be about THAT...' ? You have to play fair with your reader too, ya know... don't convince them you're writing a hitman thriller, only to turn it into a book about finding god and going straight halfway through.
Got a good point there. The hitman thriller thing is interesting, true, but you should try to hint that this isn't just a book about a cold-hearted man who goes around killing people. When he, eventually, goes to find God, he's essentially seeking redemption for his past sins.
Actually, I object to this latest drek because the fare isn't even well written. I think the trend stems not from the subject matter (look at the publishing dates for Mary Shelley and Bram Stoker) but for the amateurish way the stuff is constructed. And it's not just the "vampire dwarf culture" I find objectionable. It seems that whenever a good book, a good movie or a worthwhile invention appears, we have several years of wannabees. In fact, many people will tell you that bodice-ripper love novels have a set, unified formula driven plot. My goal was not to cash in on trendy Christian themes, but to tell a story with spiritual overtones. The problem is one that Gonissa raises. You say 'religion' or 'spirituality' and people brush off the innovation and the quality of the story and toss the work into the bargain bin. To use a simple analogy, it's like getting a toddler to eat broccoli. Most times you cannot sell it as a stand-alone. Sometimes you need a little cheap Velveeta. I wish it wasn't the case, but I was tentative broaching the subject here because I really want to learn something--and if you knew me in person you'd know that no one defines my actions as "tentative." Simply put, I have an idea for a story, and it has some problems.
Yes, but those stories appeal TO A CERTAIN READER. Otherwise they wouldn't produce them anymore. You just have to make sure people know what they are getting, and then your book will find it's own audience. Dressing up a book as something else or disguising what it is really about is fundamentally dishonest to your reader, and they won't forgive you for it and buy a book by you again. But you can't help that. You want to write a certain story, and that's your prerogative. Some people will like it, some won't, and that's THEIR prerogative. If you want to avoid people being turned off your book because it has a Christian message, don't write a book with a Christian message. But don't do what certain Jehova's witnesses do and knock your door, ask to talk to you about healthy living and weight loss, and then try to force a copy of Watchtower into your hands. That's just forcing your ideas on people by stealth, which is in my opinion, one of the most insidious kinds of religious preaching. Write what you want to write, but don't be dishonest about it. People will respect you far more if you just come out and say it.
With the help of this thread, the responses and their direction, I have decided to do just that. Of course, the members here are also flying blind, they have not read one word of the current draft. I'm hoping that once the reader gets wrapped up in the plot(s) he will see that spirituality sets the mood not unlike the fantasy landscape. It's a stage for the presentation, not a ham-fisted message. I would point out one thing. We've had a nice little debate and/or exchange. I think people have strong feelings about the topic. If there was no interest or concern at all, one or two of you would have written to me and the thread would have died. But if you are a member here, you're interested in stories and writing. I cannot stop writing. BTW, in two years when this is an Academy Award winning movie, I hope all of you go and buy tickets...
I think all books or films have a mixture of elements to them, anyway. The theme of 'redemption' (or whatever) is very common - lots of gangster films have that in them. I'm thinking of stuff like much of Francis Ford Coppola/ Scorsese's output et al. Certainly that wouldn't make them come under any 'stereotyped' 'Christian' umbrella; it's an aspect of the story.
Hey, considering we would've been instrumental in getting this book into print in the first place, I'd hope you'd comp us!
Choose! Zombies or anything on Christianity/religion. I would take the latter any day, and I am not religious or christian. Some people just don't like reading about zombies, and some others don't like reading religion or Christianity.
I'm with you there! The problem with lots of my creative process is that I have a bizarre gallows sense of humor, and a sharp tongue that I cannot control. Frankly, I hate any piece of fiction that beats to death a current fad or craze. Having said that, there's a part of me that would love to write a short story about a religious zombie who becomes a Cardinal. On the way to Rome, he and his elfin adjutant are assassinated by a staving female teenager who's a crack shot with a bow and arrow. As Tom Hanks chases her around several monuments, it is learned that she killed them not because of the love of her god or the Twinkies in the Cardinal's lunchbox, but because they were vampires with direct orders from Hogwarts. If sold, I'd have Peter Fonda produce the movie as an inside joke.
two years!?... nothing moves that fast in either the literary world, or the film industry... can only happen in books or in movies...
I agree. You'd be lucky if it had a small reading, if it were published at all. It takes a while for the book to make it to the shelves.
it sure does!... IF you got an agent on your first try and IF the agent snagged a publisher on her first try, it would still take from 1 1/2 to 2 years from the time you signed the publishing contract, for a book to appear in the bookstores...
I meant it with a touch of humor. While I doubt I'll strike gold on the first story--and I have lots of polishing to do and I haven't even sought out a professional(s) at any capacity yet--I'm not ready to trade anonymity for fame. In fact, I'd pay to be left alone. Even if I really make headway I'll most likely use a "nom de chrome."
Be honest! I'm currently re-reading Paradise Lost and I'm all over it in admiration of the beauty and prose (and juicy horror) although I haven't got a single Christian cell in my body. C.S.Lewis on the other hand, I absolutely loathe with a passion, for his unscrupulous sneaking-religion-through-the-back-door into childrens heads. That is just downright devious, and I got this Aslan puppet I punch in the face regularly Ok, huff....my point was, be honest -- don't have a hidden agenda, but write openly and make no excuses.
My story doesn't have a hidden agenda, but I felt my entry into this forum did. For example, some members here asked me questions like, what's it about, where does it take place, is it fantasy, that sort of thig. I kept my answers veiled. But, you go someplace as a new member and start spouting religion and the mood changes. In fact, I'm not religious at all. I just seek God, and I'm about as confused as the next guy. Without trying to sound like a nut-job standing out in an open field and calling for Jehovah, I'm pretty much done with the seductive attributes of life. I filled my bucket list years ago. Back in the late 1980s my wife and I went to several Daniel/Revelation seminars, and I knew a lot of the imagery and history from college courses and art classes. And ya' know, sitting down and having a deep discussion with your guardian angel doesn't sound like a boring pursuit to me. Now, it might seem odd to you at first, but the Apostles had their 'bikers' too. They were called 'the sons of thunder' and most people cite this as their trouble with decorum and swearing. I hope to stand on the sea of glass someday and sing only a song we can sing. I'm sure many folks will find it hard to imagine I'm really there. You should read my preface.
Lewis had no hidden agenda. It wasn't hidden at all. What do you expect him to do? Put his beliefs in a box? No. Chronicles of Narnia is entertaining, and lots of people like it. Okay, so it's not your taste, and that's fine. That doesn't mean it's not well written. In fact, the writing is quite good. This is the sort of thing Tourist was talking about -- people dissing him simply because there are Christian themes involved. There's nothing wrong with writing Christian stories for children, and that doesn't automatically make it propaganda. All stories have beliefs involved, especially children's books. It's just the nature of books. Aslan puppet...? Uh huh. Okay. That sounds...healthy. Not demented at all.
Gonissa, maybe we should stress the fact that I am not religious. I know that you get it, but I also feel that anyone who discusses spiritual themes is a breast-beating weirdo. But to be fair, my book isn't on the shelves so that readers can see the dichotomy. I'm sure it would then get the response I'm looking for. Readers would not say, "He's a religious nut." Instead they would say, "He's a nut." Finally, recognition in my own time.
Phrases that start with "anyone who" frequently end with narrowness. Discussing spiritual themes is a matter of both free speech and freedom of religion. Speaking of it does not automatically qualify one as a breast-beater. And even breast beaters are funny sometimes.
Maybe that's the crux of the issue. Clearly, just because I am not religious does not automatically mean I refuse to recognize spiritual connections. At present I do not believe in UFOs, but if a bunch of little grays landed and asked me to change their oil, I'd get some really nice deep-wells and talk engines. I approach my ethereal quest in the same fashion. I do not seek to put God in a box. He'll send for me when the time comes. I'll fulfill my purpose, and I will not belittle that chore because my distrust of most religions make me despise shamans. I do not plan my story to be about religion. You answer the door thousands of times. One time, it will be your Guardian Angel.
"Religious" is not the same as "spiritual." I'm an atheist, but I'm a spiritual person. I just seek my spiritual fulfillment in a non-religious way (by which I mean without God and without churches. Spirituality is very human to me, and that's one of the reasons I write and sing. Doing so fills the space in me that other people fill with some concept of God. Tourist, it seems like you're a non-religious person seeking God. I'm a non-religious person seeking something other than God. Is it possible that we're seeking the same thing, but are using different words for it?
