1. Annihilation
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    Annihilation Active Member

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    Let's talk about hallucinogens

    Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by Annihilation, Oct 27, 2014.

    Well, I know a lot of you have ideas of what effects LSD can have on someone, but let's get into details, shall we?
    Alex grey, an artist has taken DMT on several occasions and claims to have experienced "mental death" and being born again after large doses. He says, after taking a large enough dose, you reach the "other side" that is supposedly much more than a little acid trip.
    Another guy, Terrence McKenna has talked about seeing "machine elves" come to him and explain things that were true and he would have never realized it in real life.
    I'm curious, do any of you have experiences to share? Also, what are your thoughts on this?
     
  2. Wreybies
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    Wreybies The Ops Pops Operations Manager Staff Contest Administrator Supporter Contributor

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    Um... I did cheap high-school acid a few times when I was young and I did real-deal crazy acid just once when I was at university. It's not my personal "flavor of choice" when it comes to mind alteration. The things experienced within even a profound acid trip suffer from the containment of solipsism. Alex Grey and Terrence McKenna may have experienced things that altered their sober view on the world but all of that lives within the confines of their skulls. I experienced a fun night of fevered talking with my pals followed by a confusing fog of the next day (tempered with a lot of high grade weed) and then sleep followed by work. There's an inherent message in the idea of looking for amazing truths through drugs that the drugs somehow fix a broken connection. That, in my opinion, is a fallacious starting point. My mind and my perceptions aren't broken or in need of closing circuits that evolution or god or whatever one believes, has, for whatever reason, left open and inaccessible.
     
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  3. Shadowfax
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    Shadowfax Contributing Member Contributor

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    So, I googled Terence McKenna:

    "According to Wired magazine, McKenna was worried that his tumor was caused by his 35 years of smoking cannabis"

    I'm not at all sure that I want to emulate a man who needed machine elves to explain things that he would never have realized otherwise...what were these things? Were they things that I realized by NOT having my brain fried?
     
  4. stevesh
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    stevesh Banned Contributor

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    You have to read a lot more about and by Terence McKenna than an article in Wired to grasp where he's coming from. A brilliant man.

    Personally, I tried LSD and peyote/mescaline (my favorite) back in the late '60s and tried salvia more recently, all with wonderful hallucinogenic effect. The effect of hallucinogens is so dependent on what you bring to the experience that you can't really glean anything important from someone else's description of their trip.

    One man's 'machine elves' might be another's 'angels'.
     
  5. Cogito
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    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    Hallucinogens scramble your brain chemistry, at least for the duration of the trip. LSD is known to have persistent effects for many users years after the last use of the drug. DMT and DET have not been studied to the extent more popular hallucinogens have, but there is no evidence that they are any safer. And there are plenty of LSD turnips in institutions.

    To me, that's a strong indicator of a Bad Idea, especially given the absence of any significant benefits.
     
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  6. Annihilation
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    Annihilation Active Member

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    Well, none of this comes from me, but he said that these beings came up to him and told him secrets about the government, life and the universes and the truth behind big issues of today. Look into the book, machine elves.
     
  7. Annihilation
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    Annihilation Active Member

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    What kind of long term effects?
    And I'm glad I got some opinions about the use of it.
    But isn't it interesting how someone becomes this force instead of a single individual during DMT?
    I think, if I was just a little more desperate to find the meaning in my life... I would look for some DMT by all means. Imagine what you could write.
     
  8. matwoolf
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    matwoolf Contributing Member Contributor

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    Several hours into his trip he discovers the meaning of absolutely everything. He discusses this revelation with his peers, befriends a stain on his t-shirt, has a wonderful time and such great confidence now that he has all the answers to everything. However, in the instant of contemplation he can't quite put his finger on the truth any more and as the hours pass he is dispirited how he has allowed the answers to drip through his fingers. By way of recompense there is pleasure at this point actually viewing the truth, because it drips through his fingers. He wanders the field showing everybody his true hands are dripping in truth. But do not touch my fingers he says. Don't steal my truth. Some fool touches his finger and brings the sky crushing down on his mind, he can hear the clouds shouting his name. Finally he is able to raise his face from the dirt and rocks gently back and forth.

    Across the field another chap rocks on his haunches. He is determined to establish theirs must be a cosmic bond, and skips towards the old man and they embrace each other in a rush of love even though the other chap's drug of choice was in fact cider but this does not seem to matter so much. Then he remembers he wrote the truth down on paper at half past three in the morning. He finds the piece of paper, on which he has drawn an enormous series of concentric circles and underneath written:

    'The frog king is jumping.'

    He has no idea what this means.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2014
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  9. T.Trian
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    T.Trian Overly Pompous Bastard Staff Supporter Contributor

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    After one hazy Dublin night, my note read "Leprechauns dance naked when the bell rings." I can't remember the significance, only that it was significant.

    Never tried acid, but even if I got the opportunity and decided to have some, I doubt I'd arrive at any life-altering epiphanies since I've reached none through other substances. According to my experience, true wisdom isn't transmitted through the mouth or found at the bottom of a bottle, within a syringe, on a mirror, in a pipe, a capsule etc. As a matter of fact, I think I've gained more wisdom from a drunken tussle than I have from being drunk, but maybe that's just me; might be the other way around for somebody else, and yet somebody else might find their deepest epiphanies tripping on acid. Maybe that's because one person's wisdom can be another's stupidity.
     
  10. Shadowfax
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    Shadowfax Contributing Member Contributor

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    This reads like an attempt on the 6-word story Challenge...after a hazy Dublin night.
     
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  11. T.Trian
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    T.Trian Overly Pompous Bastard Staff Supporter Contributor

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    The only thing I do remember about that epiphany is that it struck me as I was taking a leak in the bathroom of a pub while a riverdance show was underway onstage.
     
  12. Lewdog
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    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

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    Some of the after effects later in life can be flashbacks to the trip at any time. It's not something you can control like you did the first time you took it and knew you were going for a ride.

    I've actually watched documentaries that scientist have used some hallucinogens and psychedelics like ecstacy (Molly) to treat some mental illnesses like depression. Of course this research didn't take place in the U.S., but they did show promise.
     
  13. GoldenGhost
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    GoldenGhost Contributing Member

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    DISCLOSURE: a rant of my opinions. Tread skeptically--I'm not a scientist and do not claim any of the below information as fact. Just simply what I have personally experienced and observed.

    My thoughts are very simple:

    There are two types of people (my categorization, of course), when it comes to hallucinogens. People who can eat them, and people who can't.

    With that said, mushrooms have never really treated me well. They were the first psychedelic I tried. There is a psychedelic species that grows near creek-beds, during early spring, where I grew up. First couple of experiences were intensely vibrant and filled with hours of laughter. The next twenty or so were mostly confusion, dread, and terror. I suspect it has to do with how I was introduced to them. I hope someone on here and correct me if I'm wrong and fill me in on the intricate details. For now, I'll depend upon my limited understanding.

    There are two main components to mushrooms--psilocin and psilocybin (spelling). Both are interrelated, and in many ways one and the same. According to Rick Strassmen, there is a species that begins with one and ends with the other, but not without process. That process is one in which the body converts the active chemicals from psilocybin to psilocin during the experience. However the species that grew wildly in the forests of my home contain only psilocin; there is no conversion. My intuition tells me that part of the happy experience with the species most commonly eaten comes from that process--once the conversion has taken place, the real psychedelic experience kicks in. In my words, with the mushrooms I picked and ate at home, there is no buffer, no 'set-up' to ease one into such a state. You're thrown right into the circus, without warning. And as someone who was very new to these states, it caught me completely off guard. I had no idea what I was doing and was not equipped enough to handle them well. I have not eaten them for many, many years, so I cannot say that for certain. I stopped due to it being so unpleasant. Would I have a better experience now that I've had more experiences and became more 'practiced'? I cannot say, and have no inclination to find out.

    As for LSD, and real LSD, mind you--not some research chemical (RC) laid on paper or put into a vial and sold as LSD, which is a widespread problem in today's counter-culture scene, since RCs have profound effects and can be intensely strong at small dosages (which is also incredibly dangerous and misleading, especially for those who have not really gotten their psychedelic 'sea-legs', because it almost always scares the living shit out of the person expecting a mild psychedelic experience, and not streams of color, kaleidoscope visuals, time-warps, melting sensations, foreign shapes, and fractals upon fractals upon fractals). Real LSD is much more consistent in its effect, assuming you fall under the category of someone who can eat it (my opinion) and did so while in a balanced/positive state of mind in a familiar area around familiar people (you eventually learn how to adapt while in the state of mind, but I digress). The dose is the most important part, as far as what kind of experience you are looking for is concerned. Yet there seems to be a threshold that sort of creates a plateau of experience. Someone high on roughly 800 to 1200 mics will generally have the exact same level of hallucinations experienced by someone who has eaten close to 3000, albeit the latter may be more susceptible to psychedelic blackouts, or time-warps (where you 'fall' into a visual, so to speak, only to come out of it and focus back on your surroundings--the aspects of reality you perceive as you normally to--and discover 8 hours has gone by (when it felt like 8 minutes). You also have a slight level of control over your visuals. There are what I call "surface visuals" which are happening all the time, but do not completely blur the lines of reality, or make it hard for you to interact with your surroundings--ripples in walls, shapes forming on the surface of things, the ground etc.. And then there are visuals that get more complex the more you focus on them and 'stay' staring at them, where you become entranced and go deeper and deeper into what you are seeing. This can happen at any time, usually when you decide. There are also levels in which you are sort of 'forced' to keep going, but that's neither here nor there for now. I will say, apparently the only noticeable difference in experience is when someone decides to nearly tipple the common dose (8-10,000 mics or more), which has been done plenty of times and quite often by certain people in certain circles, with varying results, of course. I know a few people who have, personally, taken ridiculously high amounts at once, and they are as normal as normal gets--whatever that means.

    Now obviously there are exceptions and you are still playing with fire, but again, I have seen, for nearly two decades, people safely use such chemicals without permanent or irreparable mental damage. Many of them began their journey when I did, and I still see and talk to them frequently.

    As for myself, I have had a ton of really positive LSD experiences. Have dosed somewhere around 40-50 times, some small amounts and some larger amounts (around the 1500 micrograms range), I've eaten paper, liquid, I've been dosed more than a few times without knowing it at first (friends playing tricks one me, and even a few strangers deciding to play god, benevolently), and not one trip was 'bad' or 'negative'. Something happens when I eat L--I slip into a new, albeit just as comfortable reality that has many similarities and differences than the one in which we currently exist. At times I have experienced what is known as 'ego-death', but not completely, in that it did not incapacitate me. It more or less did away with the part of the ego that wants to argue with you and put you in conflict with how reality should be--it's more like you take every punch as it comes with a smile. Most of the time I was totally content to wander around and laugh and talk with people about life, music, food, adventures/travels--whatever. I mostly ate L at music festivals in open areas and campgrounds, so getting lost was part of the fun, though I have wandered city-streets in D.C., NYC, Denver, and Pittsburgh etc., rode subways and have taken cabs, while spun the fuck out. Never went to a casino or vegas, as much as the H.S.T. in me begged me to do so--I'll chalk that up as a missed opportunity--but I suspect the adventure there would be plenty.

    Only a handful of times did I lose my ability to communicate for a lengthy period of time during the experience, which at first is always slightly scary, because it is hard to grasp, that what I was thinking I was saying was not actually being said. There was a complete disconnect. Not an altogether easy transition, but once you realize talking is futile, it ceases to be an issue. Again, state of mind for me was key, though. I came into almost every experience with a level of acceptance of the unknown. I knew I would be okay, no matter what happened and even welcomed the pleasant surprises (like the two times I was dosed by strangers, after having a nice conversation).

    I am absolutely convinced that, though my outlook or perspective was permanently shifted as a result of those experiences, to a point of no return (which may sound weird to some), they were completely beneficial to my overall well-being. That's the best I can put it.

    Regarding DMT--I've smoked it twice. Both times were incredibly intense. There is nothing that can prepare one for that type of sensory overload. I remember both experiences vividly (6 years and 2 years after the fact, respectively). In short, the first one was a lesson in humility. The second was a cleansing. Again the positive effects still linger and have not wavered. Therapeutic? I'd say so, but that's just how I feel.

    As for effects that I still experience. I do not know if you would call them flashbacks, but I think the correct term would be moments of euphoric recall, though -sometimes- these moments are accompanied by mild visuals. Nothing crazy, and nothing I do that bothers me in the slightest. I also see shapes differently, notice patterns more than I used to, and can occasionally imagine what a wave of visuals would probably look like, when staring at let's say, a rug of a certain make. If anything the effects are most noticeable when I see live music, which is clearly a result of association and conditioning. I no longer do drugs (and I physically cannot drink alcohol, period), and have not for quite some time, yet there are still moments during shows that are too much for words to accurately describe.

    I've dabbled with a few other subtances--MDMA, MDA, 2cb, and a couple synthentic dmt/mushroom derivatives, but my experience is rather limited and feelings are indifferent. I preferred MDA over MDMA, due to the visuals, and the synthetics were overly intense and filled with confusion. A few times I've combined MDA/MDMA with LSD, but I did not like 'tainting' the LSD experience. I can count on my hands the number of times I've eaten any of these chemicals and really have no opinion on them. They did not 'do' much for me.

    In conclusion, I do not regret my psychedelic choices. Most were just bizarre, crazy, warm, fuzzy, loving, fearful, confused, jovial, circusy psychedelic states, and yet there were a few that really, at the very least, opened my eyes to connection and harmony and synchronicity and emotion and perception, and made me much more intensely aware of such ideas and aspects of life.

    Anyway, /endrant

    If you made it this far, pat yourself on the back. I hope some of that makes sense.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2014
  14. Annihilation
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    Annihilation Active Member

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    How'd you think of that, I couldn't think of that lol.
     

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