1. Algoma

    Algoma New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2016
    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    1

    Are the top 5 always better?

    Discussion in 'Marketing' started by Algoma, Nov 5, 2017.

    I'm guessing it's everyone's dream to get published by one of the top 5 or a related imprint, but is it always better, especially for debut authors?

    I've heard a theory that says that the downside is that since a top 5 player is so big, it inevitably has a a large list of established and celeb authors who get most of the publisher's love, and by the time they get to your newbie book, they won't have much left to offer you, Like a traveling budget for promotion and book fair arrangements.

    What's your take on this?
     
  2. CoyoteKing

    CoyoteKing Good Boi Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2017
    Messages:
    781
    Likes Received:
    1,562
    Location:
    Kennel
    So... I have a story about that.

    There's this book I really like. I won't name it. It's sort of a gay romance slash YA novel. It's really funny.

    Now, the thing is, the vast majority of gay romance novels are either self-published or published by a small independent press. It's basically it's own genre, and the Big Five usually leaves it alone.

    This book was so good, though, that the author managed to make a deal with the Big Five anyway. They published her book under Hydra, which is is a science-fiction themed e-publishing imprint.

    Now, you'd think-- this book is funny, it's hilarious, it's romantic, it should appeal to both science fiction fans and gay romance fans... right? Also, it was published by the Big Five, so it should do great.

    Well, no. (a) There was no marketing, and (b) It didn't really fit as a science fiction novel. So it didn't sell as well as it should have.

    This is just my opinion, so take it with a grain of salt. But I'm convinced that book would have done way better if they'd published with someone else. There are small presses that specialize in exactly those sorts of books. Not only would she have sold more copies, she might've gotten a bigger cut (depending on how her royalties worked out). A large part of selling books is reaching the correct audience, and Hydra's audience was the wrong audience. They didn't publish stuff like this, normally. It was a great book, but nobody read it, because Hydra didn't normally deal with this stuff.

    Anyway, long story short, I don't think the Big Five is always better. You need to make the right decision for you.
     
    Megs33 likes this.
  3. CoyoteKing

    CoyoteKing Good Boi Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2017
    Messages:
    781
    Likes Received:
    1,562
    Location:
    Kennel
    Another thing, just wanted to add--

    Every publisher has a limited budget. They're always going to focus on the authors that bring in the most money. You might have the same problem even if you go with a small/independent publisher.
     
  4. Laurin Kelly

    Laurin Kelly Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2016
    Messages:
    2,521
    Likes Received:
    4,054
    I publish with a small independent publisher (Less Than Three Press) that specializes in LGBT romance, and it's worked out quite well for me. They release less than 10 books a month, so they're able to give each author individual attention and do a bang-up job of marketing my books IMO.

    I haven't worked with a Big 5 publisher so I might be talking out of my ass, but based on what I've heard it seem like the smaller presses are more willing to collaborate with authors. For example, I was given several cover concepts to choose from when it came to cover art, there has never been any pressure to change my titles, and I'm not required to comply with all of their editor's suggestions or corrections. I'm not sure I'd get that kind of kid glove treatment from a larger publisher.
     
    Shenanigator likes this.
  5. BayView

    BayView Huh. Interesting. Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2014
    Messages:
    10,462
    Likes Received:
    11,689
    I think it depends on your goals, to some extent, but one of the big plusses of the Big Five is that they pay significant advances.

    It's nice to have guaranteed money for your book, you know? Of course you still hope your book sells well, but if you've already been paid a reasonable amount for it, the financial stress is significantly lessened.

    Other than that? I've published with Big Five, small pubs and self-publishing. They all have pros and cons and I'd like to continue doing all three.
     
    Shenanigator and deadrats like this.
  6. Tenderiser

    Tenderiser Not a man or BayView

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2015
    Messages:
    7,471
    Likes Received:
    10,216
    Location:
    London, UK
    A friend of mine had the exact same problem with a very small publisher. The publisher marketed it as a gay romance and it just wasn't - it failed the two core requirements of a romance (the romance wasn't the main plot, AND there was no happily-ever-after for the two lovers). All of the ARCs resulted in angry and/or confused reviews from people who were expecting a M/M romance and got a gory urban fantasy instead. This was her debut book and my heart aches for her.

    So while you're probably right about the book you cite, it's not evidence for the Big 5 being bad: independent publishers make the exact same mistake.
     
  7. deadrats

    deadrats Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2016
    Messages:
    6,088
    Likes Received:
    7,421
    First, the Big Five are publishers not imprints. The imprints are divisions within a publishing house. And who wouldn't want a book deal with one of these places? I'm sure all of us would jump on that is a second. I say that in theory, yes, getting in with one of these publishers would be a dream come true for many writers. I know I surely wouldn't turn down an offer from any of these places.

    You talk about a promotional budget, but I doubt there is too much of a budget for that sort of thing at smaller publishers. A bigger piece of a smaller pie can still be a pretty small piece. I have a friend who published a book with a smaller house. He got maybe a $1,000 advance and was supposed to get royalties after that, only his publisher stopped paying him. There were excuses and promises to make good on the contract for a few years before my friend just gave up. It was never an amount worth legally fighting for. And this is a place seen as a legit small press, but the money just wasn't there to make the payouts. I don't think a writer would have a problem like that at one of the Big Five. Wasn't it the Big Six or am I just confused?

    That being said, take the book Tinkers for example. Originally, no one wanted this book. After being rejected everywhere, it got picked up by a small press. Then it won the Pulitzer. Since the bigger places weren't excited about this book when it was submitted to them, it's doubtful, had they taken it, that it would have been submitted for the Pulitzer. I think in this case the author is probably really happy with the way things turned out.

    I think the potential for a significant advance is where the big guys totally beat out the little guys.
     
  8. Tenderiser

    Tenderiser Not a man or BayView

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2015
    Messages:
    7,471
    Likes Received:
    10,216
    Location:
    London, UK
    It was the Big 6 and then RandomHouse and Penguin merged. Can't believe they didn't go for RandomPenguin. :(
     
  9. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2016
    Messages:
    22,569
    Likes Received:
    25,883
    Location:
    East devon/somerset border
    Who are we defining as the big five ?

    Wikipedia makes it

    • Penguin Random House £409.9m (23.4%) ...
    • Hachette Livre (UK) £287.9m (16.4%) ...
    • HarperCollins £132.3m (7.6%) ...
    • Pan Macmillan £57.3m (3.3%) ...
    • Pearson Education £40.7m (2.3%)
    Though I suspect most of us don't count Pearson which would make Oxford university press the 5th one. Although Bloomsbury, Simon and Schuster, and Faber alliance might also be contenders
     
  10. Cave Troll

    Cave Troll It's Coffee O'clock everywhere. Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2015
    Messages:
    17,922
    Likes Received:
    27,173
    Location:
    Where cushions are comfy, and straps hold firm.
    Ha, ha, ha. :superlaugh:

    Not in a google years (imagine a number with a shit load of zeros).
    No body would ever bother with publishing my work ever. They like
    things that are simplistic, or those that can really establish a mass cult
    following before you even have a chance of getting picked up by one
    of the big 5.

    It would be nice to think it possible to get published by a smaller publisher,
    but that seems like a pipe dream.
     
  11. Tenderiser

    Tenderiser Not a man or BayView

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2015
    Messages:
    7,471
    Likes Received:
    10,216
    Location:
    London, UK
    Simon and Schuster are the fifth, not Pearson.
     
  12. Algoma

    Algoma New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2016
    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    1
    Wasn't PRH bought by Pearson? There was some sort of merger, I think.
     
  13. BayView

    BayView Huh. Interesting. Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2014
    Messages:
    10,462
    Likes Received:
    11,689
    How long ago? The Random Penguin merger was in 2013 - is that what you're thinking of?
     
  14. NigeTheHat

    NigeTheHat Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2008
    Messages:
    1,594
    Likes Received:
    1,776
    Location:
    London
    They were sold by Pearson - or more accurately, Pearson sold their stake in PRH.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice