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Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by erebh, Dec 4, 2013.

  1. Andrae Smith

    Andrae Smith Bestselling Author|Editor|Writing Coach Contributor

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    Gee, thanks @Wreybies, I really appreciate that. An that is one of my younger sisters. She's 4 ha ha! The only reason I bring up race is because it can sometimes feel like a factor in certain environments.

    @TessaT These are all good points. I saw a guy in one of the libraries pick his nose and wipe it under the desk, and then sneeze on the computer keyboard... I wanted to kill him!
     
  2. Duchess-Yukine-Suoh

    Duchess-Yukine-Suoh Girl #21 Contributor

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    I was taught these too, and it's shocking how many adults weren't. And when I am given a compliment, I say thank you or some version thereof. I don't say "I know" like 95% of people.
    I have red hair and green eyes and kids are always staring at me. I don't mind, but have they never seen a redhead before?
     
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  3. Andrae Smith

    Andrae Smith Bestselling Author|Editor|Writing Coach Contributor

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    Exactly, @Duchess-Yukine-Suoh , and I realize, some kids haven't! Some kids have only seen people in their families and communities who look just like them. It's not like I'm judging them, but it was eye opening to be stared at and by kids as if I was an exhibit in a zoo. I was completely different from them and perhaps they never had. It is a possibility that they've never seen red hair and/or green eyes.
     
  4. Duchess-Yukine-Suoh

    Duchess-Yukine-Suoh Girl #21 Contributor

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    That is quite odd that they have never seen someone who looks different from them.

    Another thing I've noticed is that people stare at teenagers quite a bit. I understand why, but they were all teenagers at one point too, so they can't really say"I've never seen one before!".
     
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  5. svartalfheim

    svartalfheim Member

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    I was on a bus once and a young child shouted 'look mommy a ninja' and pointed to a woman in a burka. I possibly shouldn't have giggled but i did. Likewise some of the people I currently work with often stare and make judgement.
    I often find that snorting is rather rude moreso during a meal. completely puts me off. I also find it rude if someone takes my pint at the pub (like the classy lady i am) that to me is basic pub manners.
     
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  6. Cogito

    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    Well, it would serve them right if you robo-replied "Gracias" at close range with a mouthful of well-masticated fish shreds.
     
  7. Cogito

    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    Good manners require a certain awareness that those faces surrounding one are actually people. It's not compatible with being habitually self-absorbed - a common malady in today's world.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2013
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  8. Dean Stride

    Dean Stride Senior Member

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    I always get replies of offense whenever I refer to someone in the third person in the likes of "She has a name." Well excuse me for not being a walking Yellow Pages! Not only am I bad with names, most of the times I can't be bothered to remember the name of a person I'll probably never meet again. I think people should be a bit more understanding of foreigners when it comes to manners.

    Rants aside, it's considered bad manners if you ask a Bulgarian, "So, do you speak Russian or something?" It's for your own safety, you get anything from a compassionate correction to a punch in the face, depending on the person and the level of inebriation.
     
  9. Robert_S

    Robert_S Senior Member

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    booboo
     
  10. Cogito

    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    yogi
     
  11. Robert_S

    Robert_S Senior Member

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    Personally, I would not mind. I didn't bother to take a foreign language in high school and I'm struggling to communicate with the people I work with now. They are almost all Spanish speakers, a few bilinguals of varying degree (three speak excellent English, one or two speak heavily accented English and almost everyone else just a few words).

    I actually like learning languages, more than I thought I would.

    I've learned words in contradiction (frente/atras, arriba/abajo, aqui/alla, hombre/mojar), numbers to 499 and now colors.

    I've learned Rosa is Spanish for pink and Amarillo is Spanish for yellow (so, Amarillo, TX is full of yellow bellied bastards).

    That sounds overly cold and distant.

    I'm an American and I think that's rude. We've seemed to forgotten the value of courtesy being a show of respect.
     
  12. Wreybies

    Wreybies Thrice Retired Supporter Contributor

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    Mojar means to wet. Mujer is woman. ;)
     
  13. Robert_S

    Robert_S Senior Member

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    Aiyee, I'm far from fluent. I still get words I don't use regularly, so very wrong.

    I wanted to tell a girl she had nice/pretty shoes (sneakers with pink soles) and instead of saying Zapatos Bonitos, I said Sapitos Bonitos (pretty frogs).

    I also found out Hombre (man) is very similar to Hambre (hungry), at least to this imprecise white guy.

    However, there is something rather funny about man only one letter different from hungry and the spelling of woman and wet two letters different. I think the joke I'd make is it's easier to make a man hungry than it is to make a woman wet.
     
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  14. Cogito

    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    Una mujer mojada...
     
  15. KaTrian

    KaTrian A foolish little beast. Contributor

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    First thing that springs to mind is learning to say "please." We don't have any equivalent for that word in our language.

    Waitresses in some Slavic countries can be really curt and non-smily, or they give you this cutting smile, like you're not worthy enough to even lick their boots. Not sure what's up with that. I can't think of waiters who have been like that...

    If I'm having a good day, I break these rules just for shits and giggles. I smile and say good morning and hi how are you, and it's so funny when people get flustered and confused. Though most people seem to be cool with it and beam right back.

    Both of these are big no-nos over here. We need a lot of personal space... And careful with la bise. The French (and some other nationalities) might be cool with the cheek-pecks, but you'll freak out a Finn with that kind of intimacy. We don't know which way to go, how many times to kiss! Gross violation of personal space.

    No cutsies either, or you'll get the scowl of death! But that's just it, that's all you get. 'Cause Finns are too shy and proper to say anything. They just scowl at you something fierce and go 'grrr' inside their heads.

    Rude people can get away with a lot of stuff 'cause it's impolite to complain or correct them. Unless you're a mommy. Especially if you're a mommy in a swimming hall. You... don't... wear... the... swimming suit... to the... showers. Why? There's no reason why. You don't wear it to the sauna 'cause of the chlorine+heat=bad, that I get, but there's no sensible reason for not standing under the showerhead with your swimsuit on. No, you have to suffer like the rest and fight that sticky, wet suit on your clammy self just because (mine has even more fabric than most swimming suits with its short "pant sleeves" so it's just easier to pull on dry).

    Then there's the Escalator Etiquette: don't you dare stand side-by-side with your friend or partner, or you'll block the way. Stand on the right side if you're not moving, leave the left side for those in a hurry.

    Here's the thing: if you offer to help an elderly citizen, they might think you think that they're fragile and weak, so you helping them is considered bad manners and impolite.

    Not always, of course. I give my seat to an elderly person if the bus is otherwise full, at least that's relatively safe...

    Really? I've never noticed this. On the other hand, most people here have blue, green or gray eyes and fair or reddish hair so it's pretty much the norm. I think it's more like if you're dark-eyed or, God forbid, dark-skinned, you'll be stared at. But I don't find Finns a particularly star-y folk, unless you count staring at your feet.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2013
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  16. Andrae Smith

    Andrae Smith Bestselling Author|Editor|Writing Coach Contributor

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    That's pretty much how I deal with situations sometimes... That's if I'm looking to express my frustration. More likely than not I'll just wear a fake smile and let it pass. No point in causing a scene. But it is a case by case basis and I do find myself getting more bold. I will step up, sometimes, and say "hey wait, I was next." And most people here will apologize because when we recognize a line we obey it strictly because we're all so possessive about getting OUR proper turn (unless you're in a crowd of teenagers... teenagers don't understand anything linear let alone how to form a line).

    I'll have to remember that not about cheek pecks. American girls be almost expecting that mess. And if you don't after a while they start chatting with their girlfriends "I don't know how he feels about me, we aren't very intimate. Yeah we kiss, but sometimes I would like for him to surprise me with a kiss on the cheek to show he cares... blah blah blah!" Maaaannn... American girls are naggy and needy! THAT is why I've been single for so long ha ha. JK JK! Wanna know something funny? I was talking with my oldest sister, Cherelle, and we got on the topics of relationships, and she said "I'll probably be like the worst wife I'm always needing my personal space. I don't want to be sharing my bed, having some dude trying to hug up on me all night." And I was like, "You aren't alone, I really hope my future gf is not huge on cuddling." See, most--not all, but Most--American girls/women like physical attention and use it like cues to gauge a guys affection for him (because guys like physicality).

    How wide are the escalators? Over here, you can fit 1 and a half persons per step, and we are specifically told to stand still until we are stepping off. There is no hurrying on the escalators here.

    It's getting that way over here. But over here you just really can't trust people, or at least you never know who you can. Don't approach anyone you don't know out in public, they'll look at you like who the hell are you and what do you want? Why are you out of your bubble and communicating? >:/ But that doesn't stop me from offering my help to old people if I need to. I helped an old lady do her shopping a couple months ago, and she was very grateful not to have to get up from her scooter over and over again. American fears will not stop me from spreading good so I do things like slowing down on the stairs so an old lady might have someone conveniently in place to catch her, holding the door with a smile (which isn't threatening), offering my help with a "Excuse me miss/mister would you like some help.../ for me to... bla bla bla"
     
  17. KaTrian

    KaTrian A foolish little beast. Contributor

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    This is also why I usually keep my mouth shut, but at the same time I feel like somebody has to teach them some manners.

    There was this guy who bumped into me in a supermarket. I apologized since I was more or less hovering in the middle of the aisle, undecided, but he said nothing. So T and I started following him around the store. No opportunity for revenge came up, but hopefully he felt sufficiently creeped out over the fact that we were more or less stalking him.

    I remember when my mother-in-law's brother came over with his Cuban girlfriend. Oh the shock when she came up to give us pecks the first time. It's twisted in a way. Finns are totally cool hanging out naked with each other in a cramped, hot room, but pecks are a forbidden territory.

    Some relationships are like that. But sometimes preferences change. It's probably safest to start with less cuddliness so as not to creep the other person out :D I'm like human velcro with my husband, but a no-hug zone to the rest of the world -- more or less. Families and best friend excluded; some huggage is known to have occurred.

    Not too wide, to tell you the truth. I hardly ever see heavier individuals using them especially on railway stations or the metro, probably for the fear of blocking them :eek:

    Many of them are meant for two rows, one stands, one moves, two people fit side by side. People tend to climb the escalator up, stand when it's going down. I think 'cause it's quite common not to just stand there -- which eliminates the whole purpose of escalators, so go figure -- it's become something of an unspoken rule to stay on the right if you want to stand, walk on the left side if you're in a hurry.


    Yeah, 'cause what's the worst thing that could happen, really... The trust thing is a problem though. If you've got heavy luggage, trusting them to a total stranger is a risk. Old people get mugged a lot 'cause crooks pretend to help, but in reality it's just a distraction.

    At the Uni, boys rarely hold doors open for girls. I wonder if they think it a) reinforces gender unequality b) is not a man's job anymore, hell, women should open the doors for us for a change!
    At my current workplace, men pretty much always hold the door open for the lady to walk through.

    "Funny" story from France. My sister-in-law bumped into an elderly woman, by accident of course, and apologized in English. The woman got angry and shoved her right back, then just stalked off as if my sister-in-law had cursed at her or something. "Pardon my English..."
     
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  18. T.Trian

    T.Trian Overly Pompous Bastard Supporter Contributor

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    I think that's a remnant from their communist pasts: even though the current generation of waitresses haven't lived in that era, they take their cues from their predecessors and back then, the customer service worker was always right, not the customer. I've noticed this in Russia and Bulgaria, especiall if the waitress / clerk is a bit older (although I've encountered teenage waitresses / clerks who still behave this way). It's almost like you're there just to ruin their lives, preventing them from talking on the phone with their friends or something.


    Unless they're drunk. Then again, I don't usually let people cut in before me. The few times that's happened, I've just leaned closer and said "I was here before you." For some reason, they've actually complied without a word and moved behind me or to the end of the line. If I see someone cut the line way ahead of me, I usually don't bother since it'd likely require me to give up my place in the line to walk up there to sort it out. Don't care enough.


    I think that particular old lady's reaction stemmed mostly from being rather surprised and scared because not only was something unusual happening, she was helped by someone who looked like a foreigner (naturally black hair is pretty rare around here), and it was in a smaller town, in an area and during a time when Finland was one of the most racist countries on the planet, probably in the top 3.


    I did call him a dickfaced wanker or some such but he didn't appear to notice it or pretended not to. :D


    Kinda like in swimming halls, in the smaller lanes: you're supposed to always swim on the right side so when someone is swimming towards you from the opposite direction, you don't collide. And hey, combine the movement of the escalator and your walking speed, and you'll move faster, hence walking in escalators!


    They are just shy virgins who hide their insecurity and fear of girls behind gender equality and "modernity." To most of them, girls are still strange mystery creatures instead of people.
    When I hold open a door at the uni, most girls don't react to it in any way, only a few smile or scowl, and some just look surprised and confused. It only gets awkward when the girl suddenly stops, as if I was trying to lure her into a trap, and then we end up standing there like a couple of tools, me holding the door, her not stepping through it. Those situations are resolved in one of two ways: either I motion for her to go ahead and she does (usually embarrassed about having gotten confused) or she still doesn't move (usually scowling by now) and I'll step through the door myself after the compulsory shrug.
     
  19. Tharian

    Tharian Member

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    Talk about generalisation and indiscreetness.

    OT:

    Too much liberty, in my opinion, has resulted into the deterioration of humanity, i.e. the fading of manners (as we know them). Which has its up and downsides.
    It all starts with parental education, and even though the basics are still very much alive, I can't help but think that our sense of the value of manners has been almost mitigated throughout the generations. Especially table manners and other specific disciplines of amenity.

    In my opinion, being proper carries a paradox. I find that social etiquette entails that if someone is unsuitable in his or her manners, that you are—precisely because you are proper—bound to comment about it. Of course, everything has its context, circumstances and convention.

    In the end every country has their different perspective on what is proper and what is not. But body language is universal, and it is with that which our basic sense of manners are intertwined with.
     
  20. T.Trian

    T.Trian Overly Pompous Bastard Supporter Contributor

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    Well... as far as the generalization goes, if you noticed, we weren't discussing all male uni students, just those who choose not to open doors, and knowing quite a few such boys, there are some similarities among them (in this respect, I mean). As for being indescreet, well, I've been a shy uni boy myself, so I reserve the right to laugh at myself. Also, don't take a self-proclaimed misandrist too seriously (although the generalization does have some truth in it, at least here in the Helsinki University).
     
  21. Tharian

    Tharian Member

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    Seems I missed that. Indeed, choosing not to would be very silly. 'Socially inept fools' sounds like an apt description that could make the generalisation list as well.
     
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  22. KaTrian

    KaTrian A foolish little beast. Contributor

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    Yeah, but in the end what we've discussed here are stereotypes and stereotypical behavior, and I think everyone gets that. We've treated the subject humorously, as it should be, I think. As has been evident even here on this forum, people coming from all over the world have been able to find common grounds, other things than writing, too.

    Since we're on the topic about politeness, manners, and differences, I remember when I was in the UK, pretty much everyone added 'luv' to the end of the sentence when talking to me and my friends. You can't really do that in my native tongue (unless you're an elderly woman), it would come off either creepy or very patronizing.
     
  23. 123456789

    123456789 Contributor Contributor

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    What do you call a uni boy who only opens doors for the attractive ones? :)
     
  24. Tharian

    Tharian Member

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    It's basically the same in my country, but I think that if a peer would say 'luv' or 'dear' even someone from the UK could feel some aversion.
    I dislike it when people approach me informally. In certain language you have honorifics, which people blatantly ignore because they want to come across as amiable and approachable. I, however, feel much more at ease with formal language. It keeps out any suggestions and shows a direct respect whilst you're at it.
     
  25. T.Trian

    T.Trian Overly Pompous Bastard Supporter Contributor

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    T.Trian.



    :D

    All seriousness aside, I've started opening the door to a broader spectrum of uni students and personnel ever since this piece of human velcro found its other half that I call KaTrian. (we seriously need a mushy smiley)
     

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