1. chicagoliz
    Offline

    chicagoliz Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    May 30, 2012
    Messages:
    3,295
    Likes Received:
    815
    Location:
    Pennsylvania

    McDonalds shows how you can live on minimum wage -- Oops! Maybe not

    Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by chicagoliz, Jul 17, 2013.

    This story has been all over my facebook newsfeed today. Apparently, McDonalds and Visa got together and decided to show you (because, you know, you were being silly and not budgeting properly) can live on minimum wage. Unfortunately, I think this chart was created by some suburban boy interning at Visa because his Daddy works there. If not, it sure seems like it.

    The first problem, is that you must get a second job at 30 hours a week. Secondly, you don't pay for heat. Somehow, you also magically find health insurance for $20 a month, which McDonalds itself doesn't even offer at that rate. It also assumes you have no dependents and don't pay for gas.

    I'm curious how those of you outside the U.S. view this chart. I think most in the U.S. would see that it proves the opposite of what McDonalds and Visa wanted to show.

    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/mcdonalds-cant-figure-workers-survive-153900349.html
     
  2. erebh
    Offline

    erebh Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2013
    Messages:
    2,620
    Likes Received:
    467
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Ok we'll call the sample worker Joe.

    While working 2 full time jobs Joe hasn't time to be sick or drive so he could save a fortune there. If the average rent in America is $1087, he's probably just got a sngle room for his 600- that's all he needs as most nights he probably sleeps in the broom cupboard at work to avoid being late in the morning. Heating, cable not necessary but he might want internet on his cell while on toilet breaks. But like Jim Cook says - it's probably a typo and meant as second person income. If Joe did his 40 hours he'd have to find Jane and together they might make it.

    Interesting fact for US based McDonald's workers, Ireland's McDs pay newbies €24,122 - over €2000 per month ($3000) - Higher ups can make $67k p/a! exchange rates at 30% Euro to USDollar
     
  3. thirdwind
    Offline

    thirdwind Contributing Member Contest Administrator Reviewer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2008
    Messages:
    7,351
    Likes Received:
    2,891
    Location:
    Boston
    Perhaps they want you to get a roommate who pays the heating bill and drives you around. And I guess you don't really need health insurance as long as you're really careful. They also expect you to work two full-time jobs? They better make another chart for budgeting your time.
     
  4. chicagoliz
    Offline

    chicagoliz Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    May 30, 2012
    Messages:
    3,295
    Likes Received:
    815
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    I don't think its a typo and intended as a second person income. I think the writer of this article was looking for any possible way that this budget could even remotely make sense. Therefore they acknowledged that it was possible they intended it this way. But I don't see any real evidence that they did.

    I am curious about how McDonalds would budget for their employees around the world, taking into account government benefits, and differentials in the cost of living. Plus there are different societal expectations as far as the number of hours worked -- would most Europeans expect to work 70 hours a week (as is assumed here)?
     
  5. GingerCoffee
    Offline

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2013
    Messages:
    17,604
    Likes Received:
    5,877
    Location:
    Ralph's side of the island.
    So, 2 jobs, no heat, and imaginary health insurance, riiiight.

    Sad.
     
  6. jmhoffer
    Offline

    jmhoffer Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2013
    Messages:
    240
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    Winterpeg
    It's a ridiculous chart, but (prior to the recession) only 3% of the population earned minimum wage.
     
  7. erebh
    Offline

    erebh Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2013
    Messages:
    2,620
    Likes Received:
    467
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    I can't speak for most Europeans but French working more than 35 hours is hugely frowned upon and not just from lazy workers, govt! If a company needs it workers to work late or longer than the 35 hour week they are expected to take on new staff.

    In Ireland, McJobs are well sought after as unemployment has soared in recent years. 10 years ago McJobs in Ireland were taken by McImmigrants and McStudents. Oh how McTimes change but with complete with €50k McSalaries who would blame them?


    Sorry I meant to put this link into the earlier post regarding McSalaries in Ireland http://www.payscale.com/research/IE/Employer=McDonald's_Restaurants_Ltd./Salary
     
  8. chicagoliz
    Offline

    chicagoliz Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    May 30, 2012
    Messages:
    3,295
    Likes Received:
    815
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Interesting. Although I don't know what the managers over here would make.

    70 hours is, indeed, a lot. And if one has children, not possible. No childcare centers are open 70 hours a week.
     
  9. Garball
    Offline

    Garball Sometimes nothing can be a real cool hand. Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2013
    Messages:
    2,846
    Likes Received:
    1,331
    Location:
    S'port, LA
    Obama frowns upon you
     
  10. JJ_Maxx
    Offline

    JJ_Maxx Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2012
    Messages:
    3,339
    Likes Received:
    502
    Here's the problem: You're not supposed to be able to live on a McDonald's salary. Its a step below an entry-level position. It's primarily intended for high-schoolers and retired folks. Normal people are supposed to go to college or trade school and not work at McDonald's.

    So these people should be showing individuals how to leave McDonald's and get a job that can support someone, not live with it.
     
    1 person likes this.
  11. chicagoliz
    Offline

    chicagoliz Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    May 30, 2012
    Messages:
    3,295
    Likes Received:
    815
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    The problem is that a lot of people, with B.A.s and some with masters or even higher degrees have been forced into these sorts of jobs when their jobs were outsourced, or disappeared in the financial meltdown, or went away for other reasons. Plenty of new grads can't get jobs to begin with. Although it's a great job for teens or for some supplemental income, too many people end up in those jobs because they can't get anything else. And if they don't, people will say, "Don't sit around and collect unemployment. Go get a job. McDonalds is hiring."

    There used to be good manufacturing jobs, that paid a decent wage to support a family. Those have almost all been outsourced. The folks that did those jobs end up now in the service sector.
     
  12. GingerCoffee
    Offline

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2013
    Messages:
    17,604
    Likes Received:
    5,877
    Location:
    Ralph's side of the island.
    And yet only 24% of minimum wage workers (2012, most recent complete data at the BLS) are under age 19. ~4% are 60+ years old.

    So your "supposed to be" doesn't match "are".

    And now it is 4.7%. Is it your premise that it's OK if 3,550,000 less JJ's 28% which are teenagers and retirees, so 2,556,000 of the population that are working full time don't earn enough money to pay basic expenses?


    Then there's the issue that if they are getting food stamps and subsidized health care paid for by tax dollars they are "takers". I don't suppose you see that like I do, tax payers are subsidizing employee wages of hugely profitable corporations like Walmart and McDonalds?
     
  13. jmhoffer
    Offline

    jmhoffer Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2013
    Messages:
    240
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    Winterpeg
    I have plenty of family members that went to university and can't get jobs with their degrees.

    Instead of whining about it, they realised that they needed a degree that can get them a job and went back to school.

    In the case of high priced American schools, should have figured out what job you wanted first and then went to school to get that job, rather than go to university without knowing what kind of job you can get.

    Its poor planning and an expectation of work simply because you have a piece of paper that causes this mess.
     
  14. jmhoffer
    Offline

    jmhoffer Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2013
    Messages:
    240
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    Winterpeg
    Unlike you, I hold people responsible for their mistakes and don't blame everyone else. Go to school with a certain job in mind, not the other way around. Make sure that job is in demand and has a good chance of being in demand when you're done school. Wait until you're married to have kids, don't get married until you're financially independent. Oh look, that solves 90% of the problems.

    Unskilled workers shouldn't be paid high wages for something that literally almost anyone is capable of doing. That's supply and demand.
     
  15. GingerCoffee
    Offline

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2013
    Messages:
    17,604
    Likes Received:
    5,877
    Location:
    Ralph's side of the island.
    So you don't mind then, that your tax dollars subsidize McDonald's and Walmart's employee costs?
     
  16. chicagoliz
    Offline

    chicagoliz Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    May 30, 2012
    Messages:
    3,295
    Likes Received:
    815
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Unfortunately, it's not that easy to take more time off and pay/borrow yet more money in order to do this.
     
  17. jmhoffer
    Offline

    jmhoffer Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2013
    Messages:
    240
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    Winterpeg
    I absolutely do mind. So they shouldn't get any of the money.

    Poverty shouldn't be comfortable.
     
  18. jmhoffer
    Offline

    jmhoffer Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2013
    Messages:
    240
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    Winterpeg
    Which is why they should have planned ahead. Teachers need to stop pushing kids to university without a plan. Spend some time in the working world, get some experience, then go to school after a few years when you've had time to do some research.

    If you want to blame anyone, blame teachers for pushing them into a situation that screws them over.
     
  19. erebh
    Offline

    erebh Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2013
    Messages:
    2,620
    Likes Received:
    467
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Wouldn't it be wonderful if the whole world was just like you living up to your perfect standards?

    So if a young girl gets pregnant just before her uni degree, has to pack in school, can't afford childcare to continue education, brings up the child on welfare because her drunken one night stand, rears that child to a good honest level, in your world she should never make good money because she made a mistake?
     
  20. thirdwind
    Offline

    thirdwind Contributing Member Contest Administrator Reviewer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2008
    Messages:
    7,351
    Likes Received:
    2,891
    Location:
    Boston
    I frown upon Obama, so it's all good. :p

    Like Liz said, it's not that easy. Going back to school means saving up for tuition and/or taking out loans. The thing with student loans is that the interest rate has doubled from 3.4% to 6.8%, so I think more and more people are rethinking about how much money they're willing to borrow.

    Besides, I don't like the idea of getting a degree in something you don't enjoy just because it's "useful" or can get you a job. But that's a whole different issue.
     
  21. JJ_Maxx
    Offline

    JJ_Maxx Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2012
    Messages:
    3,339
    Likes Received:
    502
    The whole point of this is that people like Ginger will vilify a profitable company like McDonalds and just force them to pay burger-flippers 50k a year.

    I'm not saying I have an answer, but the government cannot artificially raise the salary of poor people to that of a skilled laborer. Our economy won't allow that.

    Unskilled laborers shouldn't make more than minimum wage. It's a people problem, not a corporation problem.
     
  22. erebh
    Offline

    erebh Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2013
    Messages:
    2,620
    Likes Received:
    467
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    so people without a particular skillset should be punished with a minimum wage that's not enough to live off?
     
  23. Macaberz
    Offline

    Macaberz Pay it forward Contributor

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2012
    Messages:
    3,146
    Likes Received:
    297
    Location:
    Arnhem, The Netherlands
    You'd fit right in with industrial revolution manufacturers. I've heard you say many strange things jmhoffer, but I steered away intentionally because the day that we will agree will be the day that we can divide something by zero.

    I am still going to try.

    You are presenting poverty as a choice. You are referring to so called leechers. Let me read you a lecture, poverty is rarely a choice.

    When entire families are forced to life in a trailer because dad got fired, do you wish poverty to be harsh on them? That anyone in this day and age can still equate poverty to laziness is beyond me. I will even admit that you might find a number of people who made some very poor decisions and thus ended up poor. The problem with your stance is that there is no way out. That is cruel.
     
    1 person likes this.
  24. erebh
    Offline

    erebh Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2013
    Messages:
    2,620
    Likes Received:
    467
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    well said..
     
  25. JJ_Maxx
    Offline

    JJ_Maxx Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2012
    Messages:
    3,339
    Likes Received:
    502
    I love the usage of 'punish.'

    We live in a society where everyone is a victim and there's no individual responsibility.

    Break the law by sneaking into the US? Victim.

    Oh, you're lazy and you don't go to work? Victim.

    You had no choice but to eat bacon-cheeseburgers everyday and now you weigh 400 pounds? Victim.

    It's going to be the death of this country, let me tell you.
     

Share This Page