1. CH878
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    CH878 Active Member

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    'Me and you'

    Discussion in 'Word Mechanics' started by CH878, Jan 17, 2012.

    'Me and you'
    Obviously, it's incorrect, or grammatically non-standard if you prefer, but my question is, if you're writing a first person narrative from the point of view of a character that would use this non-standard form (because of dialectical reasons) is it acceptable or indeed correct to use 'me and you' in the narrative rather than 'you and I', bearing in mind that the character would use the former in dialogue? Personally, I think it would create a more realistic 'voice' for the character, but what would editors/agents/readers think?
     
  2. Steerpike
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    Steerpike Felis amatus Supporter Contributor

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    If that is the voice of a first-person narrator, keep it. Editors and agents aren't stupid - they'll realize it.

    Also, keep in mind that depending on how it is being used, "you and me" may in fact be correct in some cases, and "you and I" would be incorrect.
     
  3. CH878
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    CH878 Active Member

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    Good point. Just to clarify, I only mean when 'me' takes the place of the subject of the sentence.
     
  4. Cacian
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    Cacian Banned

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    I would use 'you and I' because these are personal pronouns we know of.

    Me is the same him/her/his/your like this:
    it is me..
    it is him..
    it is her..
     
  5. Thetalpha
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    Thetalpha Member

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    Of course you can use you and me if it is a personal narrator - similarly, people use "I'd've" rather than "I'd have" or "I would've" for personal narrators all the time, even though, grammatically, it isn't correct. Personal narrators can be more colloquial to seem more realistic. I see nothing wrong with it.

    Though, personally, I see nothing wrong with you and me or me and you anyway. There's some grammatical pet peeves I have (like waiting on in lieu of waiting for), but this is not one of them. It's simply an ordinary part of a language's natural development that the grammar changes. If it hadn't, we'd still be running around using the 2nd person informal (thou, thee, thy, thine with the verb ending -est).
     
  6. AmsterdamAssassin
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    AmsterdamAssassin Contributing Member

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    In dialogue, anything is allowed. People don't speak grammatically correct sentences.
     
  7. Cacian
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    Cacian Banned

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    more of a reason to keep writing correctly to get people to speak correctly.
     
  8. AmsterdamAssassin
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    AmsterdamAssassin Contributing Member

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    Seriously? You think you can correct speech by applying correct grammar/spelling to your dialogue? Is this part of your plan to create a better world?
     
  9. Cacian
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    Cacian Banned

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    LOL...maybe.
    It is better to speak correctly in order to convey a correct message .
    Plus ''correct spoken English' register better with those whose English is a second language.
    That is how anyone learn by listening first.:)
     
  10. mammamaia
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    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

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    if it's being written in the first person and is the subject of a sentence, then it has to be 'I' unless it's in dialog where the person speaking doesn't use correct grammar...

    if it's first person narrative and the narrator uses incorrect grammar throughout on purpose, as a facet of their character, then it's ok to use 'me' as long as s/he makes the same mistake consistently...
     
  11. CH878
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    CH878 Active Member

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    Thanks, thinking about it, consistency is probably the key here.
     
  12. AmsterdamAssassin
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    AmsterdamAssassin Contributing Member

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    Well, it's considered ill-mannered to correct other people's grammar/spelling in posts on this forum, no matter how much the language is mutilated. And you propose that we correct people's speech in real life? Sounds like a sure way to get your ass kicked. Besides, 'you and me', when used in dialogue, isn't infraction enough, in my point of view, to require correction.
     
  13. SeverinR
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    SeverinR Contributing Member

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    So you would have a pirate from the streets with no schooling, speak perfect educated English with no mistakes?

    You portray the mentality/education level of the speaker in part as to how he/she speaks.
    In sling blade, the character would be less believeable if he didn't speak as he did.
    uh-huh, he would.

    My pet peave,
    My daughters would say for example; "Me an joe.."
    I interupt, why is Joe mean?
     
  14. Cacian
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    Cacian Banned

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    ,
    are you serious?
    how else do people learn?
    the computer does not teach you spelling or grammar for that matter (well not now anyway) but if one does not correct others how are people expected to learn?
    yes by writing correctly so that when one reads at least he or she gets to compare the way they speak against the correct written form.
    reading is great for learning to speak correct English.

    You is a pronoun, the same as I he and she.
    Me is preposition the same as him/her/them.

    You and me in writing is therefore not correct.
    You and I is.
     
  15. CH878
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    CH878 Active Member

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    'me' is actually a pronoun as well not a proposition. It's the first person singular accusation or dative pronoun, used for the object of a sentence
     
  16. Cogito
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    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    That may be true in Lounge or other general conversation forums, but in a forum on Spelling, Punctuation, and Grammar, on-topic corrections are perfectly appropriate.

    Of course, any posting that that is intended to belittle or demean another member is not only rude, it is prohibited.

    But this is a writing site. Corrections that are constructive in tone are perfectly acceptable. No one is imfallibul.


    ALSO:
    CH878 is correct. Me, him, her and them are pronouns, not prepositions, and they are used in an object context instead of a subject context. I, he, she, and they are the corresponding subject pronouns.

    I went to the store. (subject context)
    Buster punched me. (direct object context)
    Give me the book. (Indirect object context)
    Jason works with me. (Object of the preposition with)

    Also, it is an English convention that the self pronoun (I or me) comes last in a compound subject/object:
    She and I left the party early. (Not I and she)
    Franklin betrayed both you and me. (not me and you) (this is not as firm a rule in compound objects, though)
     
  17. AmsterdamAssassin
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    AmsterdamAssassin Contributing Member

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    I agree, but it's about context. The OP has already told us he knows you and me is grammatically incorrect, but wonders if he can use it in dialogue. And as a writer, I say, Yes, you can. Why? Because dialogue is not supposed to be PC or grammatically correct, but a reflection of the fictional character. So would be a first person narrative. So it's not about grammar and spelling, it's about usage in fictional dialogue.
     
  18. SeverinR
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    SeverinR Contributing Member

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    Propositions on this forum should not be taken seriously, because they probably meant it to be a prepositions.;)
     
  19. CH878
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    CH878 Active Member

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    Oh god, can't believe I wrote 'proposition'! I meant 'preposition', of course. Oooops. :eek:
     
  20. mammamaia
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    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

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    keep it clean, kids!
     
  21. digitig
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    digitig Contributing Member Contributor

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    Wrong. It is perfectly correct when it's the object of the sentence. "He gave gifts to you and me", not "he gave gifts to you and I".
     
  22. mammamaia
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    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

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    yup!...

    no offense intended, but it would be best for you to upgrade your knowledge of basic english grammar to at least an 'average' level before judging the correctness of anything therein, cacian, to avoid giving wrong info... as is, it's like a second-grader telling a college junior what's correct grammar and what isn't...
     

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