Tags:
  1. Fatalism
    Offline

    Fatalism Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2008
    Messages:
    61
    Likes Received:
    1

    Members Only Sub-Forum

    Discussion in 'Support & Feedback' started by Fatalism, Sep 5, 2008.

    Let me start off, by saying: This is my main Writing Forum. No questions asked. I love this forum! I am so thankful to be led here. So, I would like to make a suggestion that will make this forum PERFECT. It will benefit ALL of us and it can take some stress of our shoulders.

    Finding a good forum like this is hard, I know it is. I've tried. I would like to recommend a 'Members Only Sub-Forum', this sub-forum will be very useful and EXTREMELY popular. I really wish this site could add this sub-forum. That one section will make this forum the best writing forum. The reason why I really want this is because it can protect our Publishing Rights. Now that's a big thing for a lot of people.

    A Members Only sub-forum is a :private forum for members only. Guests and search engines do not have access to this forum. First rights are protected.

    Please, I beg you! Add this sub-forum!

    :p Thank you.
     
  2. Torana
    Offline

    Torana Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2007
    Messages:
    9,659
    Likes Received:
    128
    You would be better off with password protected areas. Like crit groups. Because even with member only area, there are large quantities of people able to view your work. Now if they can view it for free, why would they be interested in buying it later?

    Crit groups is the only way around it. But you have to have enough people interested to make it viable. Plus there is a lot of hidden forums, passowrd restricted areas, etc. Not sure if Daniel wants to create those sorts of area in this forum, as it would take activity away from the review room.
     
  3. Fatalism
    Offline

    Fatalism Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2008
    Messages:
    61
    Likes Received:
    1
    Every writing forum should allow writers to post things up freely. Without having to worry about all the publishing rights. A simple forum which can protect our publishing rights will be perfect. I might even donate (If this site accepts) if this site allows its members to have a member only group. So we can review freely.

    I think it's a necessity for a forum as good as this.
     
  4. Torana
    Offline

    Torana Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2007
    Messages:
    9,659
    Likes Received:
    128
    The review room of this forum is not visible to people unless they are members. Well they are, and are the titles of the threads. But the content is only viewable to members. But if you post something in a non password protected forum, like a private forum, then you can still lose first publication rights.

    THe forum you are asking for, it still allows for a large number of people to view the works posted. So it renders the work useless to a publisher. They are after work no one has read, not work that potentially hundreds have read.
     
  5. Fatalism
    Offline

    Fatalism Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2008
    Messages:
    61
    Likes Received:
    1
    This is not what I have heard from an admin from another writing forum.
    I was told a MOF will protect your rights. I believe this and just wish it could be implemented.
     
  6. Banzai
    Offline

    Banzai One-time Mod, but on the road to recovery Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2007
    Messages:
    12,871
    Likes Received:
    150
    Location:
    Reading, UK
    There is a private forum for supporters, which members get access to if they subscribe to the forum. But other than that, only registered members of the site can access the review room forums. Guests cannot view the content there, and search engines cannot acces it.
     
  7. Fatalism
    Offline

    Fatalism Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2008
    Messages:
    61
    Likes Received:
    1
    What I've heard is that you can lose your Publishing Rights if you post your entire story publicly (including cyber-space). But, if it has been posted in an Members Only forum, it will be elimnate that chance and will protect it.

    So this site overall is members-only and is protected against Publishing Rights? Or just those who subscribe to this forum?
     
  8. Raven
    Offline

    Raven Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2006
    Messages:
    9,755
    Likes Received:
    68
    Location:
    The NetherWorld
    To echo Banzai I would have said the same.
     
  9. Banzai
    Offline

    Banzai One-time Mod, but on the road to recovery Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2007
    Messages:
    12,871
    Likes Received:
    150
    Location:
    Reading, UK
    It's a bit of a grey area. As the review room cannot be accessed by non-members, all content should be fairly protected. But in order to make sure your story is protected, it's best not to post your story in its entirity (if it's a longer piece, like a novel- in which case I wouldn't advise posting the whole thing anyway, as it's against site policy).

    If it's something that really worries you, and you desperately want assistance, I'd suggest either becoming a supporter, or contacting a reviewer and receiving help outside of the forums that way.
     
  10. Fatalism
    Offline

    Fatalism Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2008
    Messages:
    61
    Likes Received:
    1
    So basically:

    - Our current review room is protected against Publishing Rights?

    - Becoming a supporter, what difference would that make to protecting the Publishing Rights? As you say they are already protected.

    I'd just be really happy if our review room (any writing room) is protected against Publishing Rights. Because then, work can be posted freely without the stress of Publishing Rights. You say just not posting it is best, what we get experience from the feedback. We get valuable lessons to learn from what others see.
     
  11. ciavyn
    Offline

    ciavyn Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2008
    Messages:
    123
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Harrisburg, PA
    Just another idea - why not borrow an idea off of critters? Have an area for people who are writing longer works, where we can advertise for dedicated reader/reviewers? For example, I have a book I'm working on (don't we all?) and I would love to get some feedback on it. In exchange, I'm willing to give feedback on other longer pieces of work. If two members agree to exchange work - or you may even want to extend that to three or four people in "group", they can agree to exchange email addresses and work together on it. Then there is no posting to worry about, and it becomes a small crit group. I would also suggest that to participate in the dedicated reader/reviewer program, you would need to have a certain amount of reviews posted on the main site. 10 or more, at least. That would eliminate newbies trying to use it and run.

    Just an idea, because I too am frustrated by the fact I can't post my work and get the feedback I want - exerpts don't always cut it. And yet I really enjoy this forum and find it to be extremely valuable.
     
  12. Fatalism
    Offline

    Fatalism Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2008
    Messages:
    61
    Likes Received:
    1
    I agree with this totally! I don't currently have any pieces I'm working on that are long, like a novel. I have just a fiction story. But I still think it's a good idea for those with long stories. So we can't really label this as 'oh, people will get lazy and it will just be spam', because it is exchange reviews.

    Two extremely signifcant things have been recommended. I hope we can get the Publisher Rights thing solved and hopefully get a long-exchange-reviews- area.
     
  13. Scattercat
    Offline

    Scattercat Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2008
    Messages:
    442
    Likes Received:
    9
    Location:
    Under there.
    What's stopping us from simply forming small email-based groups for longer works?
     
  14. ciavyn
    Offline

    ciavyn Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2008
    Messages:
    123
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Harrisburg, PA
    Nothing, actually. I'm up for it.
     
  15. Fatalism
    Offline

    Fatalism Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2008
    Messages:
    61
    Likes Received:
    1
    Emails can be personal. Not everyone wants to share their personal information just to get a review.
     
  16. Cogito
    Offline

    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    May 19, 2007
    Messages:
    35,935
    Likes Received:
    2,043
    Location:
    Massachusetts, USA
    Yes, if you form a strong working relationship with other members, they may be willing to invest the considerable time for such an in depth analysis. Most of us don't have that kind of time as a general rule, even if we are willing.

    If you are looking for editing assistance on that level, that does not generally come without a price tag. It's a lot of work, and if you don't select your editing partner well, he or she may make changes you are quite unhappy with.

    Frankly, professional editing is more for the established author who is working against a deadline, has most of the work completed on his or her own, and has met with several potential editors to make sure their decisions are compatible with the author's style.

    If you get it for free, it may be worth every penny you paid for it.

    But for in depth reviewing of a major piece, you should expect to give as much critique as you wish to receive. The person(s) you choose to partner with in critiquing should have a style you appreciate and can work with, too, because that will be the baseline for their suggestions.

    Even for excerpt critiquing, it will take time to establish good working relationships. There may be many low level issues that do need to be addressed befor the larger issues that pertain to a complete work can be dealt with, so it is worthwhile to take the time for "keyhole critiques" before worrying about the whole.

    There is no point in creating a separate forum area for intensive work on much larger pieces, due to the relationship requirements needed to make it work. Besides that, it would put first publication rights at risk.
     
  17. ciavyn
    Offline

    ciavyn Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2008
    Messages:
    123
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Harrisburg, PA
    Cogito - with all due respect, I disagree. I've received excellent critique from review groups (face-to-face) that I've worked with, but also from short pieces I've posted here. Yes, you take the good with the bad. But those who are serious about getting critiqued (or reviewed) are often serious about critiquing the work of others. You can see from my reviews that I take it seriously, and I think others would too, if there are the right guidelines in place. Money is not the only method of exchange for some.

    This is such a great forum, with some members who do offer some excellent, well-thought out advice. I've been very impressed, and I've had a history with other forums for that to actually mean something!

    I don't know if this idea would work, but I do think it is hard for someone coming into these forum to ask another person to do some indepth critique for them, no matter how comfortable you may become. Perhaps offering a way to put those members in contact with less intimidation is an idea.

    Again, I'm new here - leave it to me to already be throwing opinions around! :redface: I certainly appreciate this forum for what it is, and am happy to just be part of it.
     
  18. Fatalism
    Offline

    Fatalism Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2008
    Messages:
    61
    Likes Received:
    1
    Okay, so I'd just like a clear answer:

    Exactly where on this forum can people post work that is protected against Publishing Rights?
     
  19. Cogito
    Offline

    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    May 19, 2007
    Messages:
    35,935
    Likes Received:
    2,043
    Location:
    Massachusetts, USA
    A clear answer - If you plan on publishing, you should only post brief excerpts. Anywhere.

    The only place on the forum where pieces may be posted for comment is the Review Room area, regardless of First Publication Rights.
     
  20. Fatalism
    Offline

    Fatalism Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2008
    Messages:
    61
    Likes Received:
    1
    Alright, so if we want a review on any work, it is to be posted in the Review Room. But that still doesn't answer: Is the Review Room protected against First Publication Rights?
     
  21. ciavyn
    Offline

    ciavyn Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2008
    Messages:
    123
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Harrisburg, PA
    Ling - that's the point. If it shows up on the web, it can be archived somewhere. If you post it, you give it up. Don't post it, I guess is the best advice to follow. Sucks, I know. :(
     
  22. Cogito
    Offline

    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    May 19, 2007
    Messages:
    35,935
    Likes Received:
    2,043
    Location:
    Massachusetts, USA
    Sorry, I thought it was clear. No public forum, including the Review Rooms, is safe in terms of First Publication Rights. Even though you cannot browse the posts in the Review Room without an account, it is still a public venue.

    The more restricted a forum is, the less likely you can be caught, nut that's not the point. We do not encourage breaches of ethics or contract violations regardless of the probability of getting caught. It's also true that the more secure and restricted a posting area is, the less likely a publisher is to argue that posting there voids FPR, and that is a more acceptable argument.

    If you are concerned about losing First Publication Rights, do not post any excerpt large enough to constitute a breach anywhere. The definition of "large enough" may depend on the publisher, but I don't believe a few paragraphs out of a full novel would raise any reasonable publisher's hackles.
     
  23. Etan Isar
    Offline

    Etan Isar Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2007
    Messages:
    1,183
    Likes Received:
    32
    Someone correct me if I am wrong; but if you have a story, Linguistically, that you feel is on a level allowing for publication by a publisher who is concerned with first publication rights, then perhaps an online forum is not the place to ask for critique?
     
  24. Fatalism
    Offline

    Fatalism Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2008
    Messages:
    61
    Likes Received:
    1
    I don't have any work I consider publishing, but I just wanted to bring this subject up.

    It has been answered, so thank you to everyone that contributed, and so I guess the conclusion is: No where protects your rights. Just post a small portion that isn't significant to the work.

    Thank you staff and anyone else who joined in.
    Topic close please!
     
  25. Aurora_Black
    Offline

    Aurora_Black Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2008
    Messages:
    627
    Likes Received:
    10
    Love this idea, i'm all in for this. :)
     

Share This Page