1. Nezriel
    Offline

    Nezriel Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2008
    Messages:
    57
    Likes Received:
    1

    Military Terminology and other Military related questions.

    Discussion in 'Research' started by Nezriel, Jun 15, 2008.

    In some of the stories I read that are militaristic in nature seem to be flawed somewhat with terminology. I am in the Military and would be happy to help anybody (Short Story, Fan Fiction, etc) with terminology or general "Would this work?" questions. Feel free to PM me and I will get back to you as soon as I can : )
     
  2. Scribe Rewan
    Offline

    Scribe Rewan Contributing Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2008
    Messages:
    371
    Likes Received:
    2
    I hope your avatar isn;t a picture of you in action lol
     
  3. jim90
    Offline

    jim90 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2008
    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    England
    What terminolgy is mis-used then, you mean like cliches in movies?
     
  4. Marloy
    Offline

    Marloy Contributing Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2008
    Messages:
    439
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    A Malevolent Dream
    In the military eh? Nice. :cool:

    I know what you mean by the military terminology being misused, and (though I'm not an expert) I do recognize the clich├ęs.

    So I've got a question. What is the proper use of the military term "ooh-ah"? I know there are many variations of the phrase like "ooh-rah", with them stemming from the late term of "huzzah". But if I were to use this phrase if I were in, say, the Marines, which would be the proper to use?

    I ask because I've heard stories of non-military men saying these out of context and getting clubbed. Go figure. :p
     
  5. Lemex
    Offline

    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2007
    Messages:
    10,507
    Likes Received:
    3,151
    Location:
    Northeast England
    I'm interested, but what storys mis-use military terminology?
     
  6. Nezriel
    Offline

    Nezriel Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2008
    Messages:
    57
    Likes Received:
    1
    The term "Oorah" or "Hooyah" or "Huzzah" is just a general term for acknowledgement or achievement. Like in the Marines its "Oorah", Navy is "Hooyah", and "Huzzah" I think is more vintage, before our time. For instance, giving an order they would say "Marine, secure this building and put a .50 cal on the roof, Oorah?" "Oorah Sargeant". Or like "Good job today marines on capturing (insert random iraqi village)" "OORAH!". Same applies for the Navy except insert Hooyah.

    As far as being misused, Id have to look but Ive seen some minor things with Fan Fiction in regards to WH40K. Like "I, sir" should be "Aye sir". Certain descriptions of formations and so forth. If you would want me to check your story just PM me that youve posted it and ill read through it.
     
  7. Marloy
    Offline

    Marloy Contributing Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2008
    Messages:
    439
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    A Malevolent Dream
    Thanks, but I don't have any particular story at hand, it's just that I heard that the different branches of the military use the phrase in various contexts and that when used inappropriately it can cause havoc. And thanks for the clarification.

    If I do need your help, I won't hesitate to ask. ;)
     
  8. BrinkofDawn
    Offline

    BrinkofDawn Contributing Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2008
    Messages:
    723
    Likes Received:
    7
    Location:
    So-Cal
    Actually, this could help me a lot. I have a question: what are the ranks from General down. I'm writing a story where two kingdoms rely highly on their military force and I need to understand the terminology^^
     
  9. Banzai
    Offline

    Banzai One-time Mod, but on the road to recovery Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2007
    Messages:
    12,871
    Likes Received:
    150
    Location:
    Reading, UK
    Now that one I can answer.

    The US ranks go (in descending order)

    General, Lieutenant General, Major General, Brigadier General, Colonel, Lieutenant Colonel, Major, Captain, First Lieutenant, Second Lieutenant.

    The British army uses (again, in descending order):

    Field Marshal, General, Lieutenant General, Major General, Brigadier, Colonel, Lieutenant Colonel, Major, Captain, First Lieutenant, Second Lieutenant, Officer Cadet.
     
  10. BrinkofDawn
    Offline

    BrinkofDawn Contributing Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2008
    Messages:
    723
    Likes Received:
    7
    Location:
    So-Cal
    Sweet, now I'm helped^^ Thank you
     
  11. Moira
    Offline

    Moira Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2008
    Messages:
    80
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    The Lonestar State
    One thing that really gets me is the words spoken over a radio.

    "Over and out." That's in correct and when I see a military movie where it's said I cringe.

    There are more, but it's late and I've forgotten them.

    -Moira
     
  12. Fluxhavok
    Offline

    Fluxhavok Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2008
    Messages:
    517
    Likes Received:
    10
    Location:
    San Francisco
    yeah that "over and out" thing chaps my ass too. i also don't like it when people don't research rank structure and have a specialist saluting a sgt. or something. also unless your story is set in the future, or in some alternate universe, women cannot be assigned a combat MOS, (job) so no female infantry, rangers or delta soldiers. military books/movies are pretty complex to handle, sometimes a movie will have 3 or or four military advisors and still have a lot of problems, especially when it comes to clearing rooms, and handling a weapon.


    buy teddy grahams.
     
  13. architectus
    Offline

    architectus Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2008
    Messages:
    1,796
    Likes Received:
    14
    Location:
    Ca
    What do they actually say since "over and out" is wrong?
     
  14. Banzai
    Offline

    Banzai One-time Mod, but on the road to recovery Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2007
    Messages:
    12,871
    Likes Received:
    150
    Location:
    Reading, UK
    I'm assuming the correct phrase would simply be "out", as over is superfluous.
     
  15. architectus
    Offline

    architectus Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2008
    Messages:
    1,796
    Likes Received:
    14
    Location:
    Ca
    banzai I would thinking that too, but I have never been in the military so I would have no idea. I wonder where they got the idea to say over and out int he movies?

    I know a lot of those movies had people that had military experience helping out. It is odd they would let something like that slip.

    Although, I think I recall a movie where they simply said over. Or their code name and out. Madog out.

    - Architectus out:p
     
  16. Fluxhavok
    Offline

    Fluxhavok Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2008
    Messages:
    517
    Likes Received:
    10
    Location:
    San Francisco
    over= end of statement
    out= end of transmission/conversation.
     
  17. architectus
    Offline

    architectus Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2008
    Messages:
    1,796
    Likes Received:
    14
    Location:
    Ca
    Ah so it makes sense then why the over and out thing occured. If they were both finshed with their last statement and it was the end of the conversation they said over and out.

    I could even see a real military officer using that logic and saying it for that reason. Almost like a light hearted joke.
     
  18. Moira
    Offline

    Moira Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2008
    Messages:
    80
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    The Lonestar State
    A better way to describe this is,

    Over- End of statement, please reply.

    Out- End of conversation.

    So technically by saying over and out your saying, "I'm done answer me. No, just kidding, this conversation is over." It cancels each other out.

    (This is a very loose example of how a conversation should go. It's been so long since I've been on a radio that I've forgotten some of the proper etiquette.)

    "Mad Dog, this is Lioness, do you copy? Over."

    "This is Mad Dog. Over."

    "Just checking in like you requested, sir. Over."

    "I appreciate that. I'll need you to check in again at 2300 hours. Over."

    "Roger. Lioness out."


    I hope this helps.

    Moira
     
  19. Moira
    Offline

    Moira Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2008
    Messages:
    80
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    The Lonestar State
    Also the fist person to talk always says out.
     
  20. Emerald
    Offline

    Emerald Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2008
    Messages:
    380
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    Dublin
    Ooh, I've got a couple questions. I know it tends to be divided into Squads (9 men commanded by a sergeant), Platoon (lieutenant; around 4 squads), Company (captain; around 4 platoons), Battalions, Brigades, etc.

    For one thing: what are fireteams? Do they exist? And what exactly would the naming conventions be? I've always considered all that stuff like 'Bravo Team' and 'Red Leader' to be a bit cliche...
     
  21. NaCl
    Offline

    NaCl Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2008
    Messages:
    1,855
    Likes Received:
    58
    Now do it for the Navy and Marines. Oh yeah, how bout all the enlisted ranks...after all, those are the guys who actually fight the battles while the vast majority of the officers hide in CPs in relative safety.
     
  22. lordofhats
    Offline

    lordofhats Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2007
    Messages:
    2,023
    Likes Received:
    14
    Location:
    The Hat Cave
    Fire Teams are a subdivision of a squad. Usually a fire team is a four or five man group (the Sergeant is part of neither directly and is rather the outside force who commands them). In general a squad is broken into a Support and an Assault Team.

    The Support team makes use of long range or heavy weapons (Light Machine Guns such as the SAW, and this is where a sniper rifle or a grenade launcher would go). This team's purpose is to provide covering and suppressing fire to keep and enemies head down or force them to move.

    The Assault team caries basic weapons, and as the Support team covers the enemy, will advance in a flanking position to either A, flush out the enemy from cover so the heavy firepower of the Support team can mow them down, or B, kill them because they won't leave their position for fear of being mowed down by the support team (or if they're caught of guard because they've been keeping their heads down).

    The naming convention will vary by unit. Generically it's Alpha and Bravo, but sometimes colors are used.

    That's the basic concept. Try this link: Infantry Squad Tactics. It's a bit long but that's the whole nut.
     
  23. lordofhats
    Offline

    lordofhats Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2007
    Messages:
    2,023
    Likes Received:
    14
    Location:
    The Hat Cave
    Don't get me started on how wrong that statement is and how horribly it belittles those at whom it is directed.

    To answer the question, I direct you here: Ranks of the US Military. I really would have given them too you straight up, but with four branches and well over two dozen in each, it would take a long time.

    Edit: British Military Ranks
     
  24. Moira
    Offline

    Moira Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2008
    Messages:
    80
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    The Lonestar State
    Lol. You go LoH...
     
  25. NaCl
    Offline

    NaCl Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2008
    Messages:
    1,855
    Likes Received:
    58
    LOH - I know how the majority of officers behave from first hand experience. I lived it. My company took the same hill in the central highlands of Nam three times in nine months. I lost a couple of friends and our company lost over thirty guys - all enlisted - KIA. No officers were even wounded. Why? Because they were in a CP (command post) off the hill or they were surrounded be their personal detail that provided them extra security. Speaks volumes!

    There were a few good officers who fought along side their men, and I respected them, even though they had that extra protection. The simple truth is, ground wars are mostly fought by enlisted men led by higher ranking enlisted men (sergeants) in actual combat. Most officers disappear into CPs where they safely "direct" the battle. Lest you point out that a lot of chopper pilots risked their lives in Nam, I agree, and those slick pilots did a great job...saved my butt more then once. Ironically, even chopper pilots were not given full "officer" status. Most were "warrant officers"...kind of like slightly better grunts, and equally expendable.

    The military system of rank is no different than a monarchy. Officers are endowed as nobility with higher pay, better quarters, special benefits and unquestioned authority. Enlisted are expected to "serve" the whims of the officers, even if it gets them killed unnecessarily. Of course, the "poor" officers had the grueling task of writing letters to the families of the dead. Tuff duty...my job was to KEEP my guys alive!

    The only officer I ever really respected in Nam was a general who came up from enlisted ranks in Korea. He understood war and valued his men. I got a court martial for disobeying a direct order when a green lieutenant (new in war) ordered me to take my squad up a heavily forested hillside where I knew the NVA had built a tunnel system. Instead, I took my eight man recon squad around the base of the hill and came up the back side. We located their tunnel entrances and tossed in a couple grenades in one. When they realized we flanked their position, they came streaming out several nearby tunnel exits where I positioned my men in ambushes. We killed a couple dozen as they tried to escape and secured the hill with no losses. Tunnel rats entered the tunnels and reported ambush nests on the front side with overlapping fields of fire - a death trap for any American troops coming up the front of the hill. The Lieutenant accused me of disobeying his direct order and demanded I be punished. This two star general personally terminated the proceeding and told me I did the right thing by protecting my men while accomplishing the mission. The lieutenant got reassigned to some forward firebase in I Corp near the DMZ where snipers watch to see who salutes whom before pulling the trigger.

    So, forgive me if I see the officer versus enlisted issue as a caste system, in which enlisted lives are accorded less "worth" than officer lives. Officers are treated as royalty while enlisted are disposable serfs, yet the enlisted take most of the risks. It's not morally or ethically right.
     

Share This Page