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  1. Jack Asher
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    Jack Asher Wildly experimental Contributor

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    "Militia" takeover in Oregon

    Discussion in 'Debate Room' started by Jack Asher, Jan 4, 2016.

  2. GingerCoffee
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    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    Selfish jerks that think they should be able to use the commons as their own.
     
  3. Jack Asher
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    Jack Asher Wildly experimental Contributor

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    Hang on, the situation gets so much better.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/gop-candidates-stay-quiet-on-oregon-standoff/2016/01/03/b8b9806c-b239-11e5-9388-466021d971de_story.html

    It's a huge news issue that the GOP is going to have to address eventually. As a post of a satire of Ted Cruz put it. "I find it inadvisable to express support for a group of people fighting against a government I hope to lead." But on the other hand, there is a core group of the GOP electorate standing behind these people!
     
  4. GingerCoffee
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    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    When your campaign marketing slogan is, the government is your enemy, ... it's gonna come back to bite ya.
     
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  5. Acanthophis
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    Acanthophis ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) Contributor

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    Kinda sad that this is somewhat expected of the far right... I'm truly, truly thankful I was raised to embrace intelligence.
     
  6. Lea`Brooks
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    Lea`Brooks Contributing Member Contributor

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    It's the damn YallQaeda and VanillaISIS, waging YeeHawd again....
     
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  7. Wreybies
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    Wreybies The Ops Pops Operations Manager Staff Contest Administrator Supporter Contributor

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    I've only been following this story mildly, but these cats sound like "Sovereign Citizens". Are they? I found one report that names them as such, many reports that name them as Right Wingie Dingies, but even on those reports, the wording afterwards smells of Sovereign Citizens movement....
     
  8. Jack Asher
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    Jack Asher Wildly experimental Contributor

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    No they're not sovereign citizens. The leaders are the sons of Cliven Bundy. You'll remember him as the guy who threw a hissy fit when the Go'ment showed up to impound his cattle, after the grazed them illegally for two decades. There was an armed standoff in Nevada, and the feds backed down, knowing that it could turn into another Waco.

    The best part of this one though (aside from the way the GOP candidates are going to answer it) is that the little bird watching visitor center they've taken over is of no interest to the federal government. They're standing in the freezing snow trying to keep federal officials away from a place with the strategic importance of a Wallmart parking lot.
     
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  9. Steerpike
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    Steerpike Felis amatus Supporter Contributor

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    I'm sure they chose the location for its isolation and lack of strategic importance. If they'd tried that with some place important, like a federal courthouse, a lot of them would probably be dead by now.
     
  10. Jack Asher
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    Jack Asher Wildly experimental Contributor

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    If that's the case, what is the point of what they're doing? Ostensibly they're protesting the return to prison of a couple of ranchers who were ordered back to prison for arson. But, and here's the tricky part, those two men have already agreed to go back to jail, and say that YallQaeda doesn't speak for them.
     
  11. Lea`Brooks
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    Lea`Brooks Contributing Member Contributor

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    They're using the two men returning to jail as a cover story. From what I've read (and seen from a man's "goodbye" video posted to Twitter), their protest is more about the government stealing land from "we the people," as the man said.

    Plus, if you think about it, choosing a place of little importance makes sense. They can hole up in a tiny little building that the government doesn't care about, the government won't try to force them out because they don't care about the building, then the men inside can claim they won because the government is backing down and/or not fighting them. So then they feel victorious, while the government is just like, "Yeah, if we wanted to get you out of there, you'd be out already."
     
  12. Jack Asher
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    Jack Asher Wildly experimental Contributor

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    To what point and purpose, madam? This isn't an internet fight, saying you won doesn't mean anything unless you have actually won something.
     
  13. GingerCoffee
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    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    This article in Vox does a good job of explaining these guys' goals.
    http://www.vox.com/2016/1/3/10703712/oregon-militia-standoff
    Of course the enemy isn't just the federal government. It's the public they don't recognize have an rights to federal land:
    The goal:
    It's a remake of the Bundy ranch standoff.

    But alas:
     
  14. Steerpike
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    Steerpike Felis amatus Supporter Contributor

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    This assumes they're rational actors.

    I think they want to be able to show they can go and do what they're doing at this out of the way place. They probably feel it is symbolic. They probably feel it will be something of a victory in the eyes of their own subculture, whether it accomplishes anything real or not.
     
  15. Jack Asher
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    Jack Asher Wildly experimental Contributor

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    I don't know why it's a huge revelation to me that these crazy people might not be acting rationally, but it is.
     
  16. Jack Asher
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    Jack Asher Wildly experimental Contributor

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    minstrel, GingerCoffee and Lea`Brooks like this.
  17. GingerCoffee
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    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    From a post on another forum:
    • The collective noun for armed black people is 'thugs'
    • The collective noun for armed brown people is 'terrorists'
    • The collective noun for armed white people is 'militia'
     
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  18. Lea`Brooks
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    Lea`Brooks Contributing Member Contributor

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    Saw this on Facebook. Also saw someone say, take "armed" off of the first two and they would still be viewed the same.
     
  19. Link the Writer
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    Link the Writer Flipping Out For A Good Story. Contributor

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    This is relevant.
     
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  20. GingerCoffee
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    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    Excellent as well as short and sweet.
     
  21. KhalieLa
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    KhalieLa It's not a lie, it's fiction. Contributor

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    Thought you might enjoy this: http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2016/01/04/3735722/meet-the-child-abusing-arsonists-at-the-center-of-the-oregon-militia-standoff/

    It gives background on why the Oregon ranchers are facing jail time. The title sound inflammatory, but the article isn't.
    For those not interested in reading the full article, here is the cliff notes version:

    The Hammond's are not among the insurgents occupying the wildlife refuge and are willing to go back to jail for their crimes, which are:
    1. In 2001 Steven Hammond illegally shot several deer on BLM land, then set the fires to cover up the crime. The fire got away from them and burned 139 acres of public land, endangering the lives and property of several people camping nearby, including one of their own children, who had to shelter in a creek.
    2. In 2006 Steven Hammond lit another fire which he said was to protect his property from an approaching wildfire. This was despite the fact that a burn ban was in place to protect the lives of the firefighters battling the other blaze.

    Unrelated to the case, but interesting facts about the Hammond's Family:
    3. In 2004 sheriffs deputies responded to a child abuse case where Steven allegedly punched the child hard enough to knock him to the ground and then rubbed the child's face it into the gravel.
    4. After said child was cited for being a minor in possession of alcohol, Steven forced him to walk ten miles from the family ranch.
    5. After said child was cited as a minor in possession of tobacco, Steven made him eat two cans of Skoal Smokeless Tobacco.
    6. After said child was diagnosed with depression and used a paper clip to carve the letter “J” into one side of his chest and the letter “S” onto the other side, Steven used sandpaper to remove the carved letters from the child's chest — sanding each side until the letters were gone.

    The child abuse incidents are corroborated by pictures of the child's injures and attached to the police report which was included in the record against Dwight and Steven Hammond at their trial for arson.

    Poachers, Arsonist, and Child Abusers, just the find of people a "militia" would want to support.
     
  22. GingerCoffee
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    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    That's atrocious. Too bad that child abuse wasn't discovered at the time so the kid could have been removed or at least protected in some way. That much tobacco could have been lethal, and the sandpaper should have garnered jail time (or hopefully it did though you have to wonder what the initial sentence was compared to similar crimes).
     
  23. KhalieLa
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    KhalieLa It's not a lie, it's fiction. Contributor

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    It was discovered at the time. That's why there are police reports and photographs to be submitted along with the arson claims. The child was a witness to the poaching and they threated (and beat) him to keep him quiet. Here in the States we have very lax child protection laws. Most feel it is better for a child to be with an abusive parent because PARENTS HAVE RIGHTS!!!

    In the States a school official, who is a mandatory reporter of child abuse, can call for an ambulance to collect a child from school who was severely beaten. That child will be taken to the Emergency Room for stitches, to have a bone set, whatever, then the hospital is still required to release the child to the parents who beat them in the first place.

    In Idaho there are cemeteries filled with children whose parent's literally got away with murder. Parents have a right to refuse medical treatment for their children, even if it means the loss of the child's life, if it goes against the parents' deeply held beliefs. (Off topic, but an indicator of the rural community mentality.)
     
  24. GingerCoffee
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    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    That's sad. :mad:
     
  25. Lewdog
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    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

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