1. mammamaia
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    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

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    my poetic license to gripe

    Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by mammamaia, May 26, 2008.

    while watching the countdown to touchdown on cnn just now, i really did dissolve into tears over seeing in my mind's eye, all those starving and dying mothers and children in myanmar and africa, just to name a couple of the less than glorious spots on our home planet... the dollar signs kept flashing in my head, knowing how much it had to cost to get that thing to another planet, when the people who ponied up those billions claim they can't afford to keep their own fellow humans alive down here... thus, the poetic rant...
     
  2. ValianceInEnd
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    ValianceInEnd Active Member

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    *sighs* We are trying what we can to help those people. The government bastards in Mynmar won't distribute the supplies because they're all greedy @$$ holes. And what's wrong with sending things in outer space? It's scientific steps forward.
     
  3. lessa
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    lessa Contributing Member

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    If mother's ruled the world we would certainly have different priorities.
    I like seeing the exploration of space. We just might find that we are not the
    most intelligent beings out there.
    We should and do try to help people but when their governments will not allow
    aid in. What can we do. Fight a war where more people will be put at risk.
    I wish I had the answers and I wish I had the power to put behind my thoughts
    and actions.
     
  4. mammamaia
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    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

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    what's wrong, imo, is that so much money is spent looking around out there, when so much is needed by those down here... priorities are seriously skewed when human suffering is allowed to go on to such hideous levels, while money is wasted on finding out stuff that has no effect on current human life... whether or not there was ever life on mars won't save the life of a single starving child, or mother raped to death going for water...

    no one has to agree with me, but that's what i see as the unpleasant truth most humans don't like to face...

    lessa, your last wish is mine, as well...
     
  5. Aurora_Black
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    Aurora_Black Contributing Member

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    Indeed, I mean of course it would be interesting to find another alien race, but don't rank it number 1 on the World To Do List, the chances of finding alien life is large, but i'd rather leave that to imagination and not billion dollar funded useless sorties. We have seriously bad issues here, what are we trying to do, distance ourselves from them or ignore them altogether. Because it appears we are doing both. :( Shame.
     
  6. Frost
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    Frost Contributing Member

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    If the world was run by mothers the world would be just as bad as it is today, only it would be a whole different set of problems. Its plain arrogant to suggest otherwise.

    But for the most part i agree.
     
  7. Cicero
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    Cicero Banned

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    If you are this emotional about it, why don't you go do something to fix it?
     
  8. ValianceInEnd
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    ValianceInEnd Active Member

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    Ah, words of wisdom. As they say "there are complainers and then there are doers".
     
  9. Wreybies
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    Wreybies The Ops Pops Operations Manager Staff Contest Administrator Supporter Contributor

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    First, you have every right to your feelings, opinions, and right to express said feelings and opinions. Is that not why we are here?


    I agree that values and priorities seem out of joint from a certain perspective, but today I had the chance to chat and share thoughts with a young woman in Pakistan via this very website. That technology came to us as a side effect of the space race of the 50’s and 60’s. I’m in love with the fact that I was able to learn and to share with a person thousands of miles away in a different land and culture.

    That would have been impossible without the reaching strides of the science and space industries.

    There will always be a tragedy somewhere. There are so many humans on the planet now that the laws of probability practically guaranty that some group, somewhere will be suffering horribly. Should this stay the hand of progress? Should this cause the world to actually stop and consider nothing else?
     
  10. Al B
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    Al B Senior Member

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    Look at it this way: Prior to the space race really getting going (which of course was largely a 'proxy war' between the USSR and the US), there was no digital technology kicking around. Then, not long after Neil Armstrong and the boys made that 'giant leap for mankind', lo and behold, it really did turn out to be one in many respects; digital watches, calculators, microelectronics and all manner of things necessary to make those moonshots possible filtered down to us mere mortals.

    Now what does this have to do with feeding the poor? Well, lots. Consider the advances in technology making the world a smaller place. Suddenly, computers were affordable, and as a result, we were in touch with the world, and its plight, and so we began to care more. And, all those computers turned up in the cockpits of airliners, making it safer and easier to fly to those remote places where tragedies had befallen the people.

    There are numerous other ways in which the technology makes it self known in humanitarian ways. Can't be arsed writing a cheque and mailing it to the charity? Fine, do it online, a second's work with your credit card; don't even have to leave your seat, let alone your house.

    And why is that? Well, where was it that computer came from again...?

    Al
     
  11. Cogito
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    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    Maia, while the short term goals of feeding people and keeping them healthy is important, we also need to mind the long view.

    Planet-wide, even system-wide disasters do take place as well. Humanity's ultimate survival, which I believe is worthwhile, demands that we grow beyond this nyrsery we call the Earth, and spread our species among the stars.

    We will make mistakes along the way, but we will also learn, step by step. But we must reach high, ever extending our reach, and hopefully our wisdom.
     
  12. Bluemouth
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    Bluemouth Contributing Member Contributor

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    I wish I could be alive to see it all happen ...
     
  13. mammamaia
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    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

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    valiance and cicero...

    as for 'doing something' that's all i do do... i do nothing for money, give away all that i'm able to do, to help others... in addition to calling attention to what's needed in this world to make it a better place for all with my writings, all my waking hours are devoted to what some may call 'charitable works' but i just consider 'being useful'...

    i founded and run a free books and donation center for the poor islanders here, while doing whatever i can to help anyone with anything, as my talents permit; am working to start a series of shelters for abused women and their children, beginning with a much needed one here on tinian; have designed and am working on establishing an international peace center here, the place from where the a-bombs were launched; and i help writers all over the world with their writing, but will not help with anything that has any violent content...

    that's not much, admittedly, compared to all that's needed in this poor, suffering world, but it's all this nearly 70-year-old homeless, possessionless woman can manage... what are you two doing, if anything, that you should question my position in re complaining about the state of the world?

    cog... while i love you dearly and usually agree with you, i have to strongly disagree this time... what you say are the common excuses given for such a waste of money, talent, and energy... but it's not fact... what humankind really needs to learn and reach high for is to learn how to treat each other with dignity and love, not how to spread our evil behaviors throughout the universe... let's not argue, we can just agree to disagree...

    to everyone else who's commented... thanks for your input and for the kind words here and there... sorry i can't take time to thank you individually, hope this will suffice...

    love and hugs to all, maia
     
  14. Cicero
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    Cicero Banned

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    After proofreading, I think this post may hurt feelings. That's not my intention, and this is not an argument. It just seems to me to be pure logic, nothing more. Anyway..

    You live on a small island in the middle of nowhere, as you say, and you help people there, and that is great.. You say you give away everything, help people in need, and call to attention everything you see as wrong in this world. That's a great thing to do. We should all help people like that. If we did that this world wouldn't have the problems you're complaining about.

    Unfortunately, that's not the case. Most people don't particularly care about what happens on the other side of the world. Most people don't care about the common man who happens to be outside their sphere of influence. We all might complain just like you are now, but do we care? Nah, probably not much more than we care about the roadkill we see on the side of the street every now and then. It stings for a second, but it never breaks beyond our barriers to our hearts, our identities, and never, ever will any good be done until it does.

    As I said though, complaining, does that happen? Hell yes it does. What do you see on the news all the time? Bad stuff like this, of course. It's obviously something people want to talk and hear about.. So, why won't people do anything? How could someone who claims to love and empathize with the children in Africa see a picture or video of a child lying motionless, alone in the desert sand, soon to be dinner for some vulture overhead.. and yet still sit at home and do nothing about it?

    You call that love?

    That's the category I'm grouping you into right now, and that's the category I'll group you into until you do something about all this stuff you're complaining about. It's the false facade that people con themselves into, that they "love" their fellow man when they, at the core, do not care any more than the angsty teen who hates all of humanity for no apparent reason and looks to suicide as his scapegoat. It's dangerous because everyone does it but nobody admits it.

    Being seventy years old is no excuse. Don't sell humanity short because of your age. Do something most seventy year olds wouldn't do. So, you walked around possessionless for ten years. Big whoop. If you set a bar for yourself and say that "I have achieved enough things to sit back and relax." and yet there are things you still wish could happen, like helping people in these countries, then you have not doing anything at all. If everyone just did the norm humanity would have never gotten anywhere and Neanderthals would be inhabiting this planet right now. Einstein introduced his concept of a unified field theory when he was seventy-one, five years before his death and one year older than you are now, and yet he still managed to somehow pull through and come out with an amazing achievement like that. How come he can and you can't? Until, within this particular subject, your achievements outweigh your complaints ( And it continues to stay that way ), you have no moral right to complain at all.

    I can call you on this because I'm not someone complaining about it. I care about you because I know you, and I'm trying to influence you right now to get up and go do something if you really care like you say you do. Me, I don't care about the people on the other side of the Earth, and I won't until I see them in real life, interact with them, become a part of them as they become a part of me. That's why people try to raise awareness, not money, for poverty. If we are aware we will begin to care, and when we care we can do pretty much anything. You know this deep down; we all do.

    I realize that until those poor men and women and children become a part of me through real experience, they'll be nothing more than two-dimensional blips on a TV screen.. and until you come to that realization as well, you'll be stuck in your cycle of thinking you care about someone when you honestly, truly don't, and that's a very, very dangerous thing.

    I hope you read what I said with open eyes, ears, arms, and heart. If any of it sounded harmful or hostile, that was truly not the intention. You may close me off because I am so much younger than you, and because you have so much more life experience than me.. and it is true, you do, but I simply presented you with an idea, and once that idea leftmy mouth ( Or fingertips, in this case. ), it was no longer mine, and any bias you stick to it is uncalled for and poorly placed, because it is now just an idea floating out in the Universe somewhere, with no bias or prejudice you can stick to it. If this is the case, and it is, do I make much sense?

    edit: Sorry if I sound preachy sometimes. It's a problem I haven't figured out how to fix, yet.
     
  15. mammamaia
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    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

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    since you don't really know me at all, you can't honestly say i haven't done anything, can you?... and you haven't really said what could be done, other than 'becoming a part' of people in other places, have you?...

    actually, i have done quite a lot of that... including the following:

    i've lived with the hapless, hopeless hopi on their desolate mesas and helped them with whatever i could...

    i've lived in the south bronx ghetto with hopeless black and hispanic kids and helped them with whatever i could...

    i volunteered to go to iraq as a human shield, ended up helping to organize the whole action in london, since no one else who would, could...

    i lived and worked in homeless shelters in three states, for two years, doing whatever i could to help both the homeless i lived among and to improve the shelters...

    that's just a taste of what i was doing, while 'walking around possessionless'... walking, riding, flying, sailing, training and busing, i went completely around the world, going to anyone who needed help of any kind, no matter where it was... doing it all for free and on my own 'dime' for as long as i could...

    now, with a bad back that occasionally goes out with no warning, leaving me paralyzed, unable to move for days, and with no funds for travel, anyway, i continue to do what i can from a place where i can afford to live and keep on doing it...

    and, with my own saved up funds, i'm having 100 copies each of 6 books printed, to give away... all of my writings that DO 'raise awareness'... which is why i wrote them and why people all over the world that i've 'touched' in some way have been begging me to get them 'out there' beyond just making them available on my website...

    so, how can you possibly say with a straight face [fingers ;-)] that i have 'no right to complain at all'?... it's you who have no right to preach or complain to me about what i do or don't do, when you freely admit you do nothing at all, because you don't even care what happens to anyone else... and no, i'm not mad, just sorry for you...

    love and hugs, maia
     
  16. Wreybies
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    Wreybies The Ops Pops Operations Manager Staff Contest Administrator Supporter Contributor

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    ^ That is what I call a spanking! :D

    You go on with your bad self, Maia! :cool:


    edit~ I know you don't approve of spankings, but still, that was darned close!
     
  17. mammamaia
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    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

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    spanking!?... me???... NEVER!... you should know by now that i'm an anti-violence activist, w... of course, that doesn't keep me from delivering a verbal lashing when called for... ;-)

    actually, this poster doesn't deserve a spanking of either kind... just a 'setting straight' as it were... you're a kick, wrey!... loveya...

    hugs, m
     
  18. Bluemouth
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    Bluemouth Contributing Member Contributor

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    I'm bookmarking your website and in case I miss key dates could you update me on when the books become available? Your analysis on religion is what most appeals to me. I'll happily pay postage fees and send some extra profit for you to continue on with your good work.
     
  19. Domoviye
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    Domoviye Contributing Member

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    Space exploration has developed many things that help people. Also NASA actually gets a very small budget. NASA receives 1 dollar for every 98$ spent on social programs in the US.
    Countries and people are spending billions to the poor, but it is distributed so inefficiently that its virtually useless. The UN food agency was crying poor when the food prices began to rise, they actually have 1 billion dollars sitting in the bank doing nothing.
    We send food, medicine and aid to various places around the world like Somalia, Sudan, Myanmar, Zimbabwe and other places. Yet the governments or gangs steal it. Or in some places the organizations designed to protect and give it away, the UN mostly, sells it to the blackmarket, or forces women and children to prostitute themselves before they can get it.
    Without a better plan and a willingness to use action we can't do a lot to protect or help a lot of people in the world. So we might as well spend on things that will advance our knowledge, increase our technology and help our future.
     
  20. Raven
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    Raven Banned

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    I actually think this is Progress.

    After seeing these things Maia with my own eyes and beleive me its horrific. We must progress before we can achieve the ultimate Goal. And on this Notion I have to think we need to live and explore and we need progress because without it, we only go backwards.
     
  21. mammamaia
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    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

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    i've seen them, too, simon... and i don't see ignoring it all to go out into space is 'progress' of any good kind... the progress this race needs to make, is in its behavior down here, where all the millions are suffering, not making it easier to go out there, where we don't need to be for any good reason... we'll just have to agree to disagree on that, i guess...

    so, we should stop doing anything that's helpful to our fellow beings, let them just go ahead and be starved, raped, beaten, bombed to death, and spend all our money on fancy gizmos... nice!... that's the kind of thinking that makes me hope i'm really an 'alien' in disguise and not one of your species...
     
  22. mammamaia
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    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

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    super news, blue!... so glad to know you're up for a 'full meal' of my stuff... though no donation is necessary, it would certainly be helpful and i won't be so rude as to refuse any... please drop me an email, so i can keep your address handy to let you know when 'in whose name?' is done... just now got shipment of the first book, 'a mother's guide to clean-living in a dirty universe' and am very pleased with the printer's work...

    love and hugs, maia
    maia3maia@hotmail.com
     
  23. Domoviye
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    Domoviye Contributing Member

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    Sorry, I said that badly.
    We shouldn't stop entirely. But we should focus on making realistic changes. By giving money to dictators that won't actually use it to help the people we are merely helping them continue to destroy their people. Unless we want to forcibly remove the leaders, sending aid to some countries is a useless endeavor.
    So we should use the money that is being wasted, or not used after being donated, now and send it to the countries that will actually use it. With the amount of donations and promised donations that should be enough to feed and clothe most of the people that need it.
    That does mean some people will be ignored. But in cases such as Myanmar, Zimbabwe, and Sudan, how can we get the food to the people. These governments even when they promise to give the donations to the people steals most or all of it. So again we are not helping the people just their leaders who are raping, murdering, and stealing from their people.
    On average Western countries donate about 1 of their GDP to various aid agencies or directly to various countries. If it was used effectively that should be enough to give everyone a reasonable standard of living. But it is not used effectively.
    The Gaza Strip and West Bank get 15 billion a year, yet it is very poor, because of a corrupt government. Yassar Arafat, was a billionaire several times over by the time he died. His successors in Fatah and Hamas are going the same way.
    Too many countries do the same. Or people in the aid agency do the same thing.
    The choices now are simple.
    1) We could continue giving the several 10's of billions right now that we have been giving for decades, and hope the governments use it wisely. When a government does use it wisely we should focus more attention on them.

    2) We could increase the amount of money to everyone, and hope the various really bad governments use this new 10 billion dollars wisely, even as governments like Zimbabwe use their donations to buy a shipload of AK 47's, and 3 million bullets from China.
    We could take this money from various things such as NASA, but I would like to know that the money is being used to actually help people, not just a government. If they could promise that, I'd definitely say lets give more.

    3) We could just stop donating anything. I don't support this though. Except to certain countries where its proven 90% or more of the aid is not getting to the people. I don't like seeing people starve, or die of exposure. The current level of aid doesn't hurt the West, so I see no problem continuing it. I just wish it was used more wisely.

    4) Go in and make sure the aid is being used properly. Various Liberal pundits said we should invade Myanmar to make sure the aid is distributed to the people. This was before the Myanmar government allowed some limited foreign assistance.
    I don't support this idea, I'm all for war in certain cases, but becoming the policeman of the world, isn't a good policy and would lead to endless war.

    So why don't we keep the level of aid as is, and continue to encourage governments to help their people. While we do that we can continue making our cool little gizmos.
    Like these
    http://nctn.hq.nasa.gov/innovation/Innovation52/shexpdis.htm
    NASA advances in certain areas have lead to better computers, especially in the 50's and 60's.
    Better telecommunications so that people can actually see what is happening around the world and deal with it more quickly.
    Purification technology, NASA's development of space craft made them spend and continue to develop new filters to recycle water and air more effectively. This has advantages in everyday use, and the medical field.
    With satellites we can see potentially dangerous climate changes, storms, or fires, and warn people about them in time. We can also get photos of disaster areas that are inaccessible, and find out if a village or city is still standing, and judge how much help it needs.
    These are just a few things that have helped people, there are several hundred more. I'll try to find some websites that list them.
     

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