1. Writing Forums Staff
    Offline

    Writing Forums Staff Moderator Staff

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2014
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    53
    Location:
    The World

    New Debate Room Infraction Guidelines

    Discussion in 'Debate Room' started by Writing Forums Staff, Jan 17, 2015.

    In an attempt to make the moderation of the Debate Room more fair to the greater majority of members, we are implementing a new infraction system that will be unique to the sometimes heated environment of the Debate Room. Infractions in this area will result in temporary lack of access to the Debate Room in the following manner:

    Inappropriate Debate Room Conduct - 1st Warning
    1 Point
    One Week No Debate Room Access

    Inappropriate Debate Room Conduct - Second Warning
    2 Points
    One Month No Debate Room Access

    Inappropriate Debate Room Conduct - Third Warning
    3 Points
    Six Month No Debate Room Access

    The intent of this feature is to minimize the number of threads that get closed by addressing issues that arise in this area in a more individual manner, without having to go to the extreme of a full forum ban. This allows the infracted member continued access to the rest of the forum, and continued discussion in the thread by the remaining members with access. Important to note that any points already accrued, or accrued afterwards in other areas of the forum, are all counted together in the same pot.
     
    Lemex and GingerCoffee like this.
  2. Steerpike
    Offline

    Steerpike Felis amatus Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2010
    Messages:
    11,051
    Likes Received:
    5,255
    Location:
    California, US
    Can you define "inappropriate debate room conduct?" Death threats, insults, snark, cat GIFs, etc?
     
  3. Wreybies
    Offline

    Wreybies The Ops Pops Operations Manager Staff Contest Administrator Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    May 1, 2008
    Messages:
    18,834
    Likes Received:
    10,013
    Location:
    Puerto Rico
    Yep. Can do.

    Death Threats - Total banning from the forum, call to your local police station.
    Insults - Will incur infraction as denoted in the OP
    Snark - Be careful here because this is easy to see as no different to insults and while we try to lean to the permissive, it may not always go one's way.
    Cat GIF's - Oddly enough, a cat GIF wielded as a snarky attack can indeed be seen as an insult. Context counts, as in all things.

    Inappropriate conduct, as indicated in the standard Debate Room Rules, is the same as defined in the General Forum Rules, as has been the case since its inception.
     
    Cave Troll, KaTrian and T.Trian like this.
  4. Steerpike
    Offline

    Steerpike Felis amatus Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2010
    Messages:
    11,051
    Likes Received:
    5,255
    Location:
    California, US
    Got it. Substantive rules of the forums same as always, new procedural rules in place :)
     
  5. Wreybies
    Offline

    Wreybies The Ops Pops Operations Manager Staff Contest Administrator Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    May 1, 2008
    Messages:
    18,834
    Likes Received:
    10,013
    Location:
    Puerto Rico
    Yep. ;) We just didn't have a middle ground as regards corrective action for this area, nor did we have any tools to allow a conversation to continue for those members who are discussing within the framework of the rules. We all know that the Debate Room can raise fur that wouldn't get raised elsewhere in the forum. This gives a step between a point infraction and a complete banning. If the member earns his or her way past this step, that's a different story.
     
    Steerpike likes this.
  6. GingerCoffee
    Offline

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2013
    Messages:
    17,601
    Likes Received:
    5,875
    Location:
    Ralph's side of the island.
    I like these changes.
     
  7. Lemex
    Offline

    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2007
    Messages:
    10,507
    Likes Received:
    3,151
    Location:
    Northeast England
    I'll just say it: I don't like the idea that snark and sarcasm can be infractable at all. Sometimes people can say something quite silly, where it's often cathartic, and avoids a mean-spirited comment, to respond with sarcasm. I mean, what's better? 'Yeah, and you clearly know what you are talking about' or 'Yeah, and fuck you buddy'.

    Also, honestly, I don't know if I'm just being awful or I'm becoming more insensitive, but I've noticed people here have been much more sensitive to even friendly criticism. Sometimes I've found I've said something I in every way meant as a friendly comment and it's been taken badly - now maybe I do need to word what I write here more carefully, but you (reader) need to be more dispassionate and collected.

    Also, when people say things that are not friendly, but still civil criticism of a post. A comment like 'You clearly have no idea what you are talking about', the focus should be on what the poster who said that knows to show they clearly can back up such a statement. If the person does know much more than you, it's a chance to learn something, if they don't then don't take offence and just call them a jerk.

    I'm not saying it's not right to discourage insults, but I think in the debate room all but the most vile comment should be accepted. It is, after all, a debate room.
     
    outsider and matwoolf like this.
  8. Steerpike
    Offline

    Steerpike Felis amatus Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2010
    Messages:
    11,051
    Likes Received:
    5,255
    Location:
    California, US
    Further to what @Lemex says, I suppose it is worth noting that some people here have a very dry sense of humor, which can sometimes lead to confusion as to what is meant to be serious and what is said tongue-in-cheek.

    But I like the idea that infractions in the debate room lead to temporary loss of the debate room but don't necessarily impact access to the rest of the site.
     
  9. Lemex
    Offline

    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2007
    Messages:
    10,507
    Likes Received:
    3,151
    Location:
    Northeast England
    I am told I have a dry sense of humour. Maybe that does rub people the wrong way. I'm happy to admit I could be easily guilty of that.
     
  10. Steerpike
    Offline

    Steerpike Felis amatus Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2010
    Messages:
    11,051
    Likes Received:
    5,255
    Location:
    California, US
    I like it, personally.
     
    Lemex likes this.
  11. Lemex
    Offline

    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2007
    Messages:
    10,507
    Likes Received:
    3,151
    Location:
    Northeast England
    Heh, thanks. :)
     
    Steerpike likes this.
  12. Steerpike
    Offline

    Steerpike Felis amatus Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2010
    Messages:
    11,051
    Likes Received:
    5,255
    Location:
    California, US
    As for snark/insults, I don't mind them if they're deserved. I try to approach a discussion in a non-snarky way, but if I get a snarky reply from someone they're likely to receive a like response in return. It's not my fault I'm just better at it than most of the people who use that tactic on me.
     
    Lea`Brooks and Lemex like this.
  13. Lemex
    Offline

    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2007
    Messages:
    10,507
    Likes Received:
    3,151
    Location:
    Northeast England
    Yeah, I don't ever intend to resort to it either. There isn't a point, and few things can ever be agreed properly or logically when feelings become the focus.
     
  14. Link the Writer
    Offline

    Link the Writer Flipping Out For A Good Story. Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2009
    Messages:
    11,197
    Likes Received:
    4,209
    Location:
    Alabama, USA
    What of ad hominem attacks? Or is it included in the 'insult' section?

    Also, wouldn't it be a good idea to add that if the person breaks the debate rule for the fifth time, they're banned from the section for good?
     
  15. Steerpike
    Offline

    Steerpike Felis amatus Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2010
    Messages:
    11,051
    Likes Received:
    5,255
    Location:
    California, US
    Seems like you'd have to look at ad hominems on a case by case basis. Sometimes, they're just insults. Other times, they may be someone honestly falling into the fallacy, without intending to insult the other party.
     
  16. Lemex
    Offline

    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2007
    Messages:
    10,507
    Likes Received:
    3,151
    Location:
    Northeast England
    Ad Hominems just show the weakness in an argument really. Most of the time anyway.

    Ad Hominems will also then need a fixed and democratically agreed definition, because I've some weird interpretations of it over the years.
     
  17. thirdwind
    Offline

    thirdwind Contributing Member Contest Administrator Reviewer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2008
    Messages:
    7,349
    Likes Received:
    2,891
    Location:
    Boston
    As long we all agree that anyone who disagrees with me has committed the ad hominem fallacy, I'm good.
     
    Lemex and GingerCoffee like this.
  18. Link the Writer
    Offline

    Link the Writer Flipping Out For A Good Story. Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2009
    Messages:
    11,197
    Likes Received:
    4,209
    Location:
    Alabama, USA
    I, um...

    Goddamn it, thirdwind! :p
     
    thirdwind and Lemex like this.
  19. KaTrian
    Offline

    KaTrian A foolish little beast. Staff Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2013
    Messages:
    5,564
    Likes Received:
    3,561
    Location:
    The Great Swamp
    Depends. If it looks like flaming (see the rules), it's a no-no.

    I get it sometimes someone comes along with such outrageous opinions that it's impossible to resist poking fun at them, but it also kind of depends how that's done, how mean or hostile it is. Often a misbehaving member/members get a screaming-red stop sign or a pissed-off pink unicorn picture first instead of an infraction -- those serve to remind you guys that someone's stirring the shit in the pot and it's time to put the ladle down.

    I think, unless you've come across like an intelligent person so far, snark and sarcasm can make a person look infantile. Sometimes, to me anyway, it can also look like pretty cunty petty behavior. Like you're so desperate to win an argument, you use what I'd consider underhand tactics in that context to discredit the other person. But such behavior isn't always infractable, especially if it's a one-time dig. Use common sense. If it e.g. becomes a pattern of harassment and bullying just to win an argument, you'll hear about it. Guidelines of this sub-forum has been stated when DR was set up. Refresh your memory if you're unsure how to conduct yourselves here.
     
    Wreybies likes this.
  20. 123456789
    Online

    123456789 Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2012
    Messages:
    6,331
    Likes Received:
    3,084
    @Wreybies can we please make using words like "sexist," or "racist," or "misogynist," when directed at individuals on the forum, also an infraction? These are steep accusations that , if true, should be validated by a mod taking care of the offense.

    The above sort of words have been used here in the past to shut down arguments and scare members away from critical thinking. It is in its own way a form of malicious behavior.

    Again, I recognize that inappropriate comments are made, but as the OP suggests, this is the job of the mod, not other debaters.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2015
    matwoolf likes this.
  21. 123456789
    Online

    123456789 Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2012
    Messages:
    6,331
    Likes Received:
    3,084
    You better not be referring to me!!!!!!!!
     
  22. Chinspinner
    Offline

    Chinspinner Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2011
    Messages:
    1,918
    Likes Received:
    1,018
    Location:
    London, now Auckland
    Reductio ad Hitlerum. Yeah, I agree entirely.
     
  23. Lemex
    Offline

    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2007
    Messages:
    10,507
    Likes Received:
    3,151
    Location:
    Northeast England
    No way, dude. :friend:

    Yeah, I agree. To be honest, I would add to this a comment in the spirit of 'Hitler/9-11 was right' for now too.
     
  24. Wreybies
    Offline

    Wreybies The Ops Pops Operations Manager Staff Contest Administrator Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    May 1, 2008
    Messages:
    18,834
    Likes Received:
    10,013
    Location:
    Puerto Rico
    No, we cannot. You are asking for a gag order, which I personally will not endorse. People DO say sexist and racist and misogynistic and homophobic things in this misbegotten subforum. When this occurs, are you asking me to forbid it being called out? No. You would have the context bear no meaning? No. You are asking for a first step down a wickedly slippery path. And frankly I'm surprised that it's me who is being asked. My personal druthers still remain as they have always been. Unaltered. Were I to have them, this subforum would be deleted and the types of conversations had herein, forbidden. I have stopped pressing for my druthers because it grows tiresome, even to me, and came up with the idea in the OP instead in order to handle things individually rather than with blanket actions that affect perp and bystander alike, but don't take my silence as acquiescence. The day the owner shows the slightest give on the matter, I will be there to present a significant case.

    Seriously, have a care what you ask for. You may find yourself unexpectedly gagged. Few who regularly use the Debate Room are remotely innocent or virgin to its foibles.
     
    KaTrian likes this.
  25. chicagoliz
    Offline

    chicagoliz Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    May 30, 2012
    Messages:
    3,295
    Likes Received:
    815
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Note also that there is a difference between saying "That is a sexist statement" versus "You are a sexist."
     
    GingerCoffee and Steerpike like this.

Share This Page