No adverbs or adjectives, period.

Discussion in 'Word Mechanics' started by Rague, Jun 21, 2013.

  1. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    Oh, wow. Beautifully said, Minstrel. Styles differ. I'd hate it, if everybody wrote in the same style as everybody else.

    I'd say be 'aware' of adjectives, adverbs, and don't be afraid to use them when you need to. Just remember: like a hammer, or a drill, these are important tools to keep in the tool kit, but not appropriate for every job.

    I wonder if people who are obsessed with dumping adjectives and adverbs are the kind of people who only want to read short fiction—the shorter, the better. Maybe I'm wrong about this; it's just a gut feeling really. Nothing wrong with liking short fiction, but it's wrong to apply those principles to EVERY kind of writing.

    The best piece of advice I read regarding adjectives is to avoid using a string of them. The scrawny, timid, tiny wet, tabby kitten. Try to pull the most pertinent adjective(or two) from the mire, and use it, rather than a long string of them. This will leave a much stronger impression, a case where less is truly more.

    Anybody remember Tom Swifty jokes? The ones that made fun of adverbs?
     
  2. blackstar21595

    blackstar21595 New Member

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    No doubt. Of course there are stylistic differences to every author, but it's all about whether or not a word hinders what you're trying to say. if the adjective adds something significant that the noun can't do, go right ahead and use it. See what happens. As for me, I'll still discard ly adverbs. My writing improved when I placed that limitation on myself, and I had no problems, so I'll keep that limiter.
     
  3. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    I only see one adverb ("cautiously") in your example. I'd remove it, because "cracked open" already implies caution--the adverb is redundant. The adjective "bright" in "bright sunlight" is also redundant. (Yes, you can have faint or dim or weak or watery sunlight, but by default it's usually pretty bright.) And there's no need for you to sum up Ferg's summing up--if the sarcasm isn't evident from Ferg's words, then the solution is to change the words, not to tell the reader how they should interpret those words. I'd just stick with "Ferg said"

    All three of my suggestions are about removing words that serve to explain to the reader how he should interpret the other words. I think that the reader is smart than you think he is.
     
  4. jazzabel

    jazzabel Agent Provocateur Contributor

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    I think these kinds of 'rules' are pointless. If someone is abusing adverbs then sure, try to address the issue. But adverbs are a perfectly normal part of language and can be used, of course they can. If a writer has issues with adverbs, in fact they have an issue with expressing themselves adequately in writing. That's a much more complex problem that can't be successfully adressed by decreasing the usage of adverbs alone.
    I think it's more useful to focus on the big picture, rather than trying to follow these kinds of rules, hoping that if we don't use -ly words, our writing will magically improve.
     
  5. psychotick

    psychotick Contributor Contributor

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    Hi,

    Just my two cents worth.

    "I cautiously cracked open one eye." No, don't remove the adverb. Not if it conveys what you want it to, i.e. the idea that he was cautious in the way he opened his eye perhaps because he thought the light would hurt his eye. If this is the verbal image you want to convey, keep it. Some might argue that 'cracking' in this case says much the same thing, that therefore cautiously is redundant, but I don't necessarily see it.


    "Ferg’s gravelly sarcasm summed up the situation: “Rough night?” " As others have said the gravelly is a problem because given its placement in the sentence it seems to indicate that the sarcasm is gravelly. Sarcasm cannot be gravelly. A voice can be. Here I'd be tempted to remove sarcasm instead. So it would read "Fergs gravelly voice summed up the situation: "Rough Night?""

    If you want to ensure that the reader then understands that he was being sarcastic instead of sympathetic, you could add an extra line.

    As to the "Wet, muddy shore near the river" Both wet and muddy can have their place in this piece. Shores don't have to be muddy, they can be sandy for example or even dry. However using both is too much simply because muddy already indicates wetness. So I'd probably want to rewrite it as "the muddy shore by the river." This then I'd rewrite again because rivers don't have shores, as "the muddy riverbank,"

    At the end of the day you're trying to paint a picture with words. You need to use all the words you need to describe it as thoroughly as you need to and get rid of those that don't add to the picture. There are no absolute rules with regards to adjectives and adverbs. It all comes down to your writer's voice and what you think conveys your story best.

    Cheers, Greg.
     
  6. Cogito

    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    It's worthwhile to pay attention to advice against excessive adverbs and adjectives. But going over the top with it shows a lack of judgment.

    Of course, performing writing experiments with the extremes can be constructive, too. Just don't expect them to be publish quality. I doubt anyone over the age of ten has eve had to be told to use more adjectives and adverbs, but it might also be instructive to deliberately write something with far too many modifiers. That way you can better see how the excess weakens the writing.
     
  7. Justin Rocket 2

    Justin Rocket 2 Contributor Contributor

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    For clarity, when I said "as a rule, I try to..", I meant "try to". In other words, try to replace the adverb with a better verb. If you don't like the result, then revert back. It's only words. Rewriting is cheap.
     
  8. shadowwalker

    shadowwalker Contributor Contributor

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    Over-use of anything is bad - that's why it's called over-use. It doesn't mean never use them.
     
  9. Sue Almond

    Sue Almond New Member

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    It sounds as if someone is just trying to be controversial or maybe they think they can develop a quirky writing style by not using adverbs or adjectives. Either can be overused, and sometimes are but the question suggests a disregard for the tools of writing. The different parts of speech have roles, they are meant to be used for specific purposes and work when used correctly. Why throw two out of the set? I too have cringed at the clumsy use of an unnecessary adverb, but that does not mean they are always to be avoided, just use them selectively and appropriately. Writing without adjectives sounds like cooking without salt to me! I know some do but I also know someone who was close to death and hallucinating before they discovered he was severely short of sodium after taking too seriously the received wisdom, in the popular press, about salt being bad for you!
     
  10. Garball

    Garball Banned Contributor

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    You can play eighteen holes of golf with three clubs and still obtain a decent score, but the pros still carry all fourteen they are allowed to.
     
  11. TerraIncognita

    TerraIncognita Aggressively Nice Person Contributor

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    Balance is always good. I think you should take most advice with a grain of salt. The end goal is to not be redundant or fall into telling rather than showing. Examples mentioned by other posters like "cold ice" and "slammed loudly" are good examples of times where they're redundant. We already know ice is cold and slammed implies it was loud.
     
  12. KaTrian

    KaTrian A foolish little beast. Contributor

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    I don't have much to add, except readers also have different tastes, some really don't mind adjectives or adverbs. I've beta-read other aspiring writers' manuscripts quite a lot and made most progress with the works that weren't afraid of adjectives and adverbs while the sparse, "strong" nouns -style in a beginner's hands... it's often like getting a birthday present, but the big, intriguing-looking, promising box turns out to be empty. Maybe I'm so dumb I need them to create a stronger image of the novel's world and characters inside my head. Of course, too much is too much, and I do spot it when they're blatantly redundant.

    :D
     
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