Hey this was a discussion, not a fuss. I like to think I strike the balance of being concerned enough to not insult people, but yet, not so concenred I need everyones stamp of approval. Uh, yeah I don't think that would work. Because publishers are businesses and that means that if they noticed certain rating selling higher they are going to be more interested in those. Which means submissins are going to be encouraged to stay within those lines. Which while not being hard censoring, means that labels will censor work. Does that make sense? Hi! In that particular case, the girl wasn't actually bitchy because of her period. Actually bitchy is much more her standard. Some people commented that her emotional expressing is out of character, which a friend had a brilliant post to that. He is not on the forum so let me quote him. "The issue here is that it isn't a trope for her to be badass and have an emotional moment. There is a valid reason for her being emotional here. But since she fits the mold of the badass so easily, people tend to think anything not from that mold is an error. People can be stupid." Originally I wrote the book without thinkin of her period, so the emotional aspects were already there. I just thought it might be fun to say that she was on her period as a another stressor pushing her away from her normal self. If anything? She almost seemed sweeter on her period. Like, less able to hold back her emotions. She is usually a raging beast! So with the other emotions coming out, she was a bit sweeter. Does that mae sense?
Yeah, that is a problem that comes along with a rating system. I could argue publishers do that anyway. But I won't.
I agree, my counter is that if the system is more defined, it is easier for them to do this though. Ya know?
I don't think there's anything racist at all about your notions in the OP, as long as it's clear you're not blmaing it on their race/nationality and that the whole people of countries and continents aren't all the same to you. (Asia can't be a warrior "nation" btw, unless it's all unified as one country, and I find it hard to believe they all become controlled by a warrior culture, there's just so many they can't all be the same)
I don't think I said I was worried about it being racist. Rather fearing patractism(pretty sure I splled that wrong.) Or the idea that someone would be like. "Hey, he is calling us bigots. BURN HIM!" And well, hard to expression a countries political sense in one line. But yes, in my world. the area we know as Asia is a nation. Being, in a sense, "The United States of Asia" lol. Probably need a better name. And the culture of that nation is based on the concept of "might is right." To the point that most murder is not something anyone cares about. Most of the time a murder victim is blamed for being weak. Remember, I said. Most!
I am teasing re the fussing in the period example but really, you do fuss a lot in general. I wish you wouldn't. I've not wanted to participate in your threads because I find it a stifling read. As I do with many of the threads here where people ask for affirmation on how to write their stories or asking for ideas. For me, writing is a personal expression and it always feels tainted to me when people wish to be guided. To me, it is crowd-sourcing creativity. I want to write purely from my own thoughts as I'm not writing a collaborative story. Write what you need to write, research what you need. When it is done, stick it in the critique section and ask for feedback if you must. That would be a more authentic approach to me. Then I would know this person wrote from their own mind, from their own view of the world. That is interesting to me. It's one thing to research and ask people for their own personal account of things, but it's another thing to ask other writers on how something should be written or approached for fear of offending. And it is okay if it is done on the rare occasions because they really are stuck, but I have noticed those that ask, will keep asking...and asking... Anyway, these are your stories Wynn, you will do as you please and that of course, includes asking for the advice you feel you need. Just don't ask me! I've no patience on such things and will probably get cranky as much as I like you. All I am saying is that I don't get it, and I don't wish to.
Oh, I get it. Might make ya feel better to know. I was a lot worse when I was younger. Heck, even when I started the forum I was worse. Like this thread is a perfect example as I wasn't really seeking advice(though some people do talk as if I were) I was more curious how others felt on this issue and than used y examples as a foothold into the concept. Sorry, can't help but share my thoughts! Which is well. I am reminded of the star wars guy. Notable to say never seen the movie, but I heard a story about it, being that movie one he did he felt nervous and asked for tons of advice. And the collabortive effort made the movie more generally appealing. Or at least that is the theory as when he did movie four he felt more cocky and took complete control and everyone hated that one. Not saying he was wrong. Or that your wrong. Just everyone has their own goal. Whther it be, money(saying that gives me a bad taste, and like you I can't understand selling your creativity away for profit. I wish I wa rich just so I could give away my stories for free!) or creative expression(which sounds like your goal) or others. My goal may sound sappy, but I had a tough childhood and I earnestly believe the creativity of others saved my life. So my goal is to pass that touch. I want to write a story that touches someone so dearly, that maybe it saves or improves their life. Part of that goal though, does me I want my work to be more accepted,, which means collaberative advice. Though, you ARE so right. Over relayance on permission ruins creativity! I wish you had more free time. I so wish I could get you as a beta readr. You are just so awesome!
Okay... I have lost the plot again... I think I might be suffering from brain damage. Deleting this post. Apologies.
@Oscar Leigh has got an excellent point though. If you decide to characterise a nation or continent as being thus-and-such, that is probably not a great story plan. It's a hard stereotype to avoid, but I'd work hard at avoiding it if I were you. You can generalise about governments, of course—because a government will have a 'platform' or agenda—but careful about lumping everybody who lives in a certain place together. That's a problem we're wrestling with in the world just now, and it's a good idea to step outside it if you can. The more you look around you with open eyes, the more diversity you will see. If everybody in the USA agreed or thought the same way, there wouldn't be the knock-down battles you see going on at the moment over the candidates for President. Even within religions there is a lot of diversity and disagreement ...which can lead to wars BETWEEN advocates of the same general religion. (Several of these going on at the moment.) I'd say concentrate on individuals rather than imagined groups and you will find it easier not only to write a more mature story, but also to avoid causing unintended hurt and upset.
Hey, you were right. Except I haven't asked any subs, have considered it though. So Linny, you got to know, Sky isn't my only bad ass girl. Take Jackie, who I am currently writing about. She is a brash no non-sense punch people in the throat kind of gal. Actually, that is her problem, she has spent so much of her life trying to prove she is a strong independant woman, she has never paused and just smelt the roses. Yet no one can hold that pace forever and as she approaches her mid-life she begins to slow down, and now the weight of all these repressed emotions threaten to crush her as she goes on an emotional roller coaster that had such high points, that I still cry when I re-read some of it.
Bu... bu but! lol. To be fair. I don't disagree with you. Again I think it comes down to the point that these are not ideas that can be expressed accurately briefly. At the end of the day this is such a core concept in my universe that I am hard pressed to alter it at this point. And yeah, if you want to get to brass tax. I could describe them in fairly cheesy ways, such as. America= Tech bigots South America = Magic bigots Asia = Survival of the fittest Europe = Balance. I... only have four. Still not sure how to divide up Africa and Austrella. But that isn't a fair analysis. And no, I am not trying to say that every person in Asia believes that in the exact same manner. Though, most probably do believe it. Heck! That place isn't exactly safe. If you don't believe it, you need to move! lol but in seriousness. I make a point of explaining it. As the lore of my world iis that world war 3 happened and the war was so intense everyone realized that th world was gonna die before any descisive victor came to be known. So each powerhouse went to its own corner to live in peace, with a treaty that states that these four powrs would never again fight and if any one attempted anyything that felt like a war, the other three would purge it. Causing world peace through the thought of destruction. Asia in particular was almost completely whipped out, it was coming together through martial law that allowed them as a nation to survive. So the core aspects of their government used that as a foundation to their new laws. Which did shape the people born there. Not to say they are all clones though, but it is indeed a culture. Does that make sense? The funny thing is for as much as I worry, I honor the ideas just as much as I don't. Like, I worried a long time ago peole would hate this because as such, Asia doesn't worry as much about astethics. To the point I painted up China as a place with tons of cracks in the city. Like, pot holes NEVER get fixed. lol. Or rarely. So it has a very dirty look to it. Which I figured people would find disrespectful. At the same time though, it is also a place viewed as the true land of the free that some people at the end of their rope run to. Or another example. In the book a child dies. And to be fair, the culture does usually blame the victim for dying but not in the case of a child. And the police do come to this situation but they don't do a damn thing. But that isn't supposed to be bad. As the point of the situation is the cops feel so enraged by the situation, they practically order the family to go get their revenge, saying they will ensure no reprocussions happen from it. Land of the free and mighty! lol
I am not sure I understand the question. If you canvas opinions before you start writing then you are essentially writing by committee. If you are writing to a particular genre and hoping to be published therein, then you would have to couch to your audience. I.e. if you are writing YA then teen sex might well be something you'd put in there, but it wouldn't be graphically anatomically detailed, in any way, if you a publisher to pick it up. Likewise graphic Irvine Welsh style violence probably wouldn't go down too well in chicklit. Then there are some writers who will try to be offensive as a USP. I think most of the our challenges on here is finding an audience to offend first...
Europe=Balance? You should live here! There is so much diversity your head would spin. And the UK just voted to leave the EU, by a stinking tiny margin. And the people who started the Brexit movement (for various selfish reasons) have all run away, leaving the Brexit negotiations in the hands of a new Prime Minister who actually wanted to stay. Two parts of the 4-part UK (Scotland and Northern Ireland) actually voted to remain in the EU. One of the countries (Scotland) is currently considering another independence referendum so it can remain in the EU after all. And Northern Ireland is considering amalgamating with the Republic of Ireland, so there isn't a hard border between the two countries, and THEY can also remain in the EU. However a large faction with NI doesn't want this to happen for historical reasons, so that's not a done deal by any means. And this is just one issue—leaving or remaining in the EU. And the UK is just one small country within Europe. Really. Take this on board, if you want to create realistic conflicts in your stories. Just chucking a label on each country is not a good story plan. It really isn't. It promotes misunderstanding and demonization/veneration of large groups of people ...exactly the kind of thing you say you want to avoid. So avoid it. Don't do it. One of the things that always annoyed me no end with many Sci-Fi and Fantasy stories is that everybody on a 'planet' had the same culture or government or attitudes. What a joke, when you look at our planet and realise the diversity here. I'd say celebrate the diversity and work with it. Asia in the present day has so many different religions and governmental systems you'd struggle to count them. There are Buddhists, Muslims, Hindus, Shintos, Christians, Confucianism, Taoism, and various offshoots of each branch. And many minor religions as well. And conflicts galore between many different states. Some break out into wars, and some just simmer away. But to apply a couple of words to describe the whole region? That's just not very realistic is it? You not only will offend people with this sort of approach, you will offend EVERYBODY with this sort of approach. It's just daft. Why do you feel the need to do this?
I, again, am not saying your wrong but rather. How hopeless a situation that is. The average person won't learn half of the culture on this planet. China for example has four offical languages. Imagine the kind of differences just there, and that is a big one! I probably don't even know half of a percent of the scale of diversity this planet holds. Learning it all would be next to impossible. And you would ask me to write as if I did know it all? O.O Or at least that is what you sound like your saying. I mean, when I explain it in bigger context. I thought I sort of explained how I wasn't trying to imply it was a land of clones or that even ever aspect of an area was the same. I was saying, that war brought a large section of the world together under the threat of destruction and that this new alliance agreed on some core values in which they used as the building blocks to there new nation. Which heck isn't the above text a decent summayr of how America was formed? lol. Just like, if I said America was the land of free speech wouldn't give you a true vision of the area. Might equals right can't give you a great vision of my worlds Asia. I think the true lesson is, is it a gimmick or concept? When it is a gimmick, or just random idea made to appear well thought out without being well thought out. Then yeah, your right. But I mean, I have a culture concept, a reason why it exists. Lines and rules of general gocernment, differences between some areas. Is it perfect? Nah, but heck. Who has done it perfectly? Oh and by balance, I meant it was the area of acceptance. No bigots. Having a large government to try and secure all of its citzens together safely.
hehe... I was out of line and you're way too tolerant of me. But here is a trinket I made virtually for you because you're such a nice human being. It's good that you can cry over what you write. I try to conjure up tears for my stuff, only it's all fake... *sigh*
Oh, there is no way you could learn about all the cultures, governmental systems, religions ...and one we haven't mentioned—languages—of the world. Nobody is implying that you should. In fact that's my point, actually. How can you put a label on something you know virtually nothing about? All I'm asking is that you recognise the diversity, and not plonk silly labels on huge regions of the planet, unless you want your view to appear stereotyped. If your characters are bound and determined to see other regions of the world in a stereotyped way, fair enough. As a writer you might want to portray them this way. Lots of people DO think this way. We have examples of this kind of thinking all around us. But be careful about doing it yourself. This whole thread was started on the basis of what might be offensive to read. I can't think of anything more offensive than having a huge continent with all the people and diverse cultures inside it, being described as 'warlike' or 'balanced' or 'a bunch of geeks,' or whatever words you choose to label the area. It's just not a mature way to look at an incredibly fascinating and diverse world.
You...haven't been watching the whole refugee crisis in Europe have ya? There are plenty in Europe (from what I've read) who want them to be booted out of Europe. Greece is bankrupt/having an economic meltdown. As @jannert said, the UK just recently left the European Union and those who started it have booked it completely out of the picture. And don't get me started on poor Ukraine. D: Am I forgetting something? I think I am. Well, aside from the fact that they're all facing the real possibility of dealing with an America ruled by Trump, but for exclusively European worries... Well, there are the violent attacks on European civilians that are no doubt fueling anti-Muslim sentiments. So yeah, there's a lot of crazy stuff going on over there. I think what she's trying to say is that if you want your book to be seen as something more than “cheap, offensive humor that relies on stereotypes”, then just treat all your characters like people with different opinions, wants/needs, desires, all of that. So one way to ensure you don't offend is to treat all your characters like humans. NOTE: Some of your characters may actually want to do things that are stereotypical to their nation/group. An American might actually be fat, eat hamburgers and like to shoot his shottie he names “Big Betha”. A Japanese man might actually be crazy about anime and video games and does karate. A black guy might actually like rap and play basketball. So long as you don't imply/show that everyone in that group does all that, treat everyone as people regardless of who or what they are, I think you'll be fine.
Oh yeah. Can't much argue that. Actually I know nothing about what you speak of. I am kind of bad at current events. lol
It reminds me of Divergent (I think) that movie where they have everyone separated into the different clans dependent on their personality types. I don't find it offensive and I have heard worse premises in Science Fiction. It sounds like the kind of thing Robert Heinlein would have considered.
Yes, but this is fantasy. Whatever floats your boat in fantasy. However, I believe our original poster was considering setting a story in the real world, though (albeit in the future)—and was concerned about offending people. I think it's a mistake to stereotype cultures, countries, religions, languages, regions, countries, etc. I think that's very likely to offend. Not to mention you can miss a very vital point ...that of similarity between peoples of all races, nationalities, creeds, religions, cultures. There is a school of thought that believes people around the world are more alike than they are unalike. That aspect of humanity can get totally ignored if a country is labeled and then dealt with as a single entitity with only one or two main characteristics.
All you need to know is this guy did it and he has a very punchable face. (JK, it's a complex political issue, I just am on a certain side)
But that's when it's done intentionally. I've never heard anyone say their homogenuous elves kill all who do not fit in with characterization of their race.
