Online data storage?

Discussion in 'Writing Software and Hardware' started by BFGuru, Jun 25, 2014.

  1. Vandor76

    Vandor76 Senior Member

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    I'm not better than others because I have more experience in a particular area. I can share my experience, however. That's what I'm trying to do in this thread :)

    Yes, email is a perfect online backup. It is a must to back up your work both to a local and a remote place, especially if you have a deadline.

    Haha, I think I am paranoid enough when it comes to data safety (and security). Maybe it's just that I trust electronic devices a bit more than you and do these precautions electronically, purely because of my job.

    I like this :) It's similar to a sentence I gave to one of my chars : "How could we be better than others, if we do everything like they do?"

    I didn't want to offend you with mentioning the rain forests. If it looked like that, I'm sorry for that. You have a much smaller environmental footprint than I have.
     
  2. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    No, I actually agree with you about the rainforests, and you're right to bring it up.
     
  3. BFGuru

    BFGuru Active Member

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    So...if I use online data storage like googledocs or dropbox or even some of the online novel writing sites, is my work at risk of theft? I tried to download two programs now to help with organizing (4 stories going currently, two historic fiction, one historic fantasy and one straight up fantasy means I need to organize), only to be told both files were corrupt. yWriter and Scrivener (glad I was just aiming for the demo or I'd be rather livid). So now I'm at an impass at what to do with myself.
     
  4. Vandor76

    Vandor76 Senior Member

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  5. jazzabel

    jazzabel Agent Provocateur Contributor

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    I'm so sorry @jannert that you came so close to losing your novel, that must be a really awful feeling. I have a backup disk, which I don't use nearly often enough, and I email myself up to date drafts, so I have them in my inbox (in a special folder).Which reminds me, I need to make my writing files available on Dropbox and possibly iCloud, although the whole concept creeps me out.
     
  6. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    @jazzabel - Just read an article today in the latest edition of MacFormat magazine that makes my paranoia seem more reasonable.

    It's the editor of the magazine talking about 'future-proofing your files' —and basically, the answer is don't put all your eggs into one basket! He said if you keep your files 'on media' you have to not only check that your media is still compatible with your computer system, but also that the media itself hasn't deteriorated. He said it's not enough to just back up your stuff on hard disks or other kinds of storage media and just put them away. He said you ought to check them out every so often, to make sure they're still working. He recommends that you open and close EACH file separately. He doesn't say what to do if you find a file that's corrupted. Presumably you have it elsewhere as well?

    And he isn't completely on board with the online storage options either, because the companies running the options can go out of business, can decide to change the access rules, etc. He said it's possible to 'suddenly lose access to your files.'

    He recommends making hard copies of 'really important files.' Ha ha ha. So much for the digital age. This is the editor of a leading computer magazine telling us this. So I feel vindicated in my old-fashioned approach. Like I said earlier, people laugh, until it happens to them...
     
  7. thirdwind

    thirdwind Member Contest Administrator Reviewer Contributor

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    Maybe it's worth investing in a typewriter after all.
     
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  8. jazzabel

    jazzabel Agent Provocateur Contributor

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    You're right @jannert. I think I might print out all I have so far, it'll take a while :( I might start by creating big files for each project and just print all at once, individual chapters would drive me crazy.
     
  9. Vandor76

    Vandor76 Senior Member

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    @jannert , @jazzabel : keep your printed version at a different geographical location, not right next to your computer.
    Unfortunately creating a hard copy works only for text documents and photos. In case it's your family videos from your last summer vacation, then your only option is to store them on several places. A wedding video is a different thing, that is usually given to family members so it has several backups.
     
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  10. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    Yeah, photos are a different kettle of fish. I do believe the quote that was attached to the MacFormat article, that basically we are creating a cultural 'dark age,' because so much of what we're creating at the moment will be inaccessible to future generations—especially photos. It's such a shame that this big hole exists. Even printed photos, printed off a computer, haven't stood the test of time. Inks can be ephemeral, unlike the older forms of developed photos.

    What is needed, I think, is the financial incentive to plug this archiving hole. But of course it's the last thing the purveyors of computers want ...something that lasts. Instead, they want you to keep buying new stuff at a disheartening rate. It becomes easy to just discard old stuff in favour of new, write off the losses and move on. That's how cultural dark ages start, isn't it?
     
  11. daemon

    daemon Contributor Contributor

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    No.

    There is a greater risk of theft from someone breaking into your house and stealing your computer or hard drive or hard copies, or from someone digging through your trash.

    Theft falls under a category of risk -- I forget what it is called -- that is disproportionately worried about due to the illusion of control. It is the same reason why some people who are comfortable driving are phobic of flying. Statistically, flying is many orders of magnitude safer than driving, but some people are still uncomfortable with it because they would rather keep their fate in their own hands.

    Like plane crashes, theft is also disproportionately worried about because of its catastrophic impact. Someone pictures a plane ripping apart at 30,000 feet like it does in the movies and feels sick to the stomach at the thought of being in a plane that high. A car crash is not as spectacular, but it has the same result and it is more likely.

    People who make their own backups at home instead of delegating it to the cloud are guilty of the same fallacy. Furthermore, the cloud offers many advantages that dwarf the advantage of backup security. For starters, you can write, edit, and read on many different devices. This is analogous to a plane's advantage of getting you from point A to point B faster than a car.

    The same goes not only for theft, but also for other irrational worries like the worry that Google will suddenly start charging for access to Drive or suddenly lose the data in their centers. That last one is especially fallacious. Seriously, people, Google is one of the richest companies on the planet, and indisputably the most technologically advanced. They know what the fuck they are doing. They use redundancy. They have the resources and the expertise to store your data far more safely than you could possibly store it.

    Dropbox and Amazon (which stores the bulk of Dropbox's data) is at the same level.

    Letting an anecdotal horror story of cloud storage gone wrong convince you not to keep your data in the cloud is like reading about a plane crash in the news and deciding never to fly again. Except that you always have to sniff out the possibility that the cloud storage disaster happened due to user error, which is always more likely than a faulty product.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2014
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  12. cynthia_1968

    cynthia_1968 Active Member

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    I use Microsoft OneDrive, an USB stick, my file server and last - but not least - my web server as a backup....:read:
     
  13. daemon

    daemon Contributor Contributor

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    Yet another reason why theft and data loss in the cloud are disproportionately worried about is, frankly, pride. We keep our money in banks, we give our credit cards to waiters and websites, etc. To most of us, money is just money, and we can rationally weigh the risks against the improvements brought into our lives by convenience and by many other aspects of banks and credit cards.

    But as soon as an author imagines data being stolen or lost, it creates a visceral response. "My writing is the product of my heart, soul, brilliance, and hard work, and I am the only person worthy to protect it." Immediately, the rational mind shuts down and the primal protective instinct kicks into gear.

    Be aware of your own psychological tendencies. Do not let things like illusion of control, fear of disaster, or pride, prevent you from performing the same rational cost-benefit analysis that you would perform if you were concerned about flying, keeping your money in a bank, or using a credit card.

    I have spent a significant part of my life dealing with situations where it is easy to say a lie laconically, humorously, and persuasively, thus giving the readers the illusion that they are debunking bullshit, when the "bullshit" is really the truth that is not as easy to articulate as the lie. This is no exception. It is disheartening to observe the traction of quips like "no one worries about technology failing... until it fails on them" and the traction of comics like "rent-to-own-rent furniture".
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2014
  14. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    Christopher Phin, the extremely savvy and up-to-the-minute editor of MacFormat magazine, doesn't say NOT to use online storage. He just warns that it, like other methods of storage is not necessarily foolproof.

    He says:
    Going along with the Murphy's/Sod's Law principle, I prefer to hedge my bets and use multiple ways to back up my work. If I had several devices, such as tablets, phones etc that I work from, I would certainly use the cloud as ONE source of backup. (I don't - I work from a desktop computer at home, and my online storage consists of emails sent to myself, via my online email server. It works fine, and doesn't cost any more than my server rental does.)

    It is very handy to be able to access your work from many different computers in many different places, and if I led that kind of life, I'd certainly use the cloud. I think it's a great idea. But as the only way to store my work? No.
     
  15. daemon

    daemon Contributor Contributor

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    In line with what he says, Google at least has a precedent of warning users long before discontinuing a service, and of giving users ample opportunity to download or migrate data before the service goes offline. An example: Buzz. They have unfathomably more at stake in Drive than they ever had in Buzz.
    The best way to accomplish this is with Dropbox or with Google Drive's installed client. To achieve redundancy, you only need two storage locations: your computer and the cloud. (When one goes down, copy data from the other one to a third location, and once again, you have two locations.) With this solution, you edit files on your computer and they are automatically synced to the server. It is seamless: you do not have to go through the hassle of copying files onto flash drives, emailing files to yourself, etc.
    In general, I encourage people to approach their decision first with the concern of productivity, then with the concern of security. Productivity is guaranteed to affect your life significantly, while security is a matter of mitigating (never completely eliminating) risks that are minuscule regardless of how secure the system is (0.1% and 0.01% are both tiny numbers). Always get immediate problems out of the way before worrying about tomorrow.

    In terms of productivity: if you do not want to use several devices, then that is fair enough. But I once doubted that it would be useful to get work done on devices other than my laptop. I was a typical tech consumer who did not know what I wanted until it was presented to me. After it was presented to me, my decision to consolidate as much of my work (writing, school, etc.) as possible into Google's system was the biggest single productivity boost that I have ever experienced. It is a fundamental lifestyle change. The ability to use several devices merely scratches the surface. The productivity revolution cannot be encapsulated in a neat list of features; the only way to understand it is to experience it firsthand.

    In one word: elegance.

    On the other hand, some authors want software more robust than Google Docs, e.g. Scrivener. If they know enough about their own workflow to make that decision, then they are probably making the right decision.

    My recommendation:

    If you are not picky about which software to use, then store your data in Google Drive, use Google Docs to edit your documents, and, if you are really concerned about backing up data, then install the client. (Installing the client also enables you to work offline.)

    If you know that you want to use software other than Google Docs, then install Dropbox and keep all your data in your Dropbox folder.

    Neither option allows the possibility of suddenly losing data because it is stored on your device(s) and in the cloud. Both options run completely in the background, letting you focus on your actual work and forget about juggling files and emails.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2014
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  16. daemon

    daemon Contributor Contributor

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    I guess what I have been ignoring in all these posts is the fact that meticulously manually backing up data is a hands-on experience that can actually be enjoyable and reassuring in a weird way.

    Kinda like physical copies of books: I avoid them at all costs and I long for the day when the world is paperless, but there are still people out there who like the tactile-spatial sensation of holding books, flipping pages, and sorting bookshelves. To each his own, I guess.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2014
  17. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    I don't doubt any of what you say, and I agree that if you work with multiple devices, having cloud storage is a godsend. However, I am always wary of any one thing that is supposed to be the solution to everything. In my experience, that always works great ...until it doesn't.

    One of the two times I had to re-instate my work from a physical printout happened because my file became corrupted. In the process of backing up, I inadvertently backed up the corrupt file. I'm not saying the exact same thing can happen with cloud storage, but what if you go to the cloud ...and hey, your work isn't there any more. Or it's glitched and you've lost some part of it. Losing a chapter or even a page can be distressing. Nice to have a copy of it somewhere else.

    I'm sticking with what Christopher Phin said. Hedge your bets.

    Just out of curiosity, because I don't actually know ...what about obsolete formats and platforms? In other words, 15 years down the road, will you be able to retrieve what you stored in the cloud and be able to open and edit it in whatever new device you're using? Or will you need to constantly retrieve and upgrade what you've got stored in the cloud, before the platforms are withdrawn or the software you used to create the files has become obsolete?
     
  18. Link the Writer

    Link the Writer Flipping Out For A Good Story. Contributor

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    I don't mind online data storage, but that shouldn't be the only thing that holds what could be years of your life in text. That's why I like to keep my things backed up in a thumbdrive and at least two separate computers. That way, if Dropbox on my iPad falls apart, it's not a heavy punch to the gut. It's saddening, but it's not tragic.
     
  19. Vandor76

    Vandor76 Senior Member

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    George R. R. Martin uses an old computer with a weirdly old operating system : DOS (I think most people do not even know what that thing is). It does not have internet connection so I doubt he uses any cloud storage but I also doubt he stores his files only on that single computer. He needs to finish the last book before the HBO series reaches that point, so a data loss would be really well noticeable for the whole world :)
     

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