Passive Aggressive Abuse

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by jazzabel, Mar 21, 2014.

  1. Andrae Smith

    Andrae Smith Bestselling Author|Editor|Writing Coach Contributor

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    Sounds a lot like my step-dad and his mom... I'll have to think about this., but yeah I've noticed. This is another layer of humanity that I never considered for characters. I'd thought of flaws, but never anything like this. It's not even something that has to come out in the story, but it may be good to think about when developing realistic and consistent characters as opposed to one or two dimensional caricatures. :p
     
  2. jazzabel

    jazzabel Agent Provocateur Contributor

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    @Andrae Smith : I can understand how you feel. I have a father who is extremely difficult, he is a narcissistic, violent, misanthropic, annoying, control freak. He too has a reason, growing up with traumatised parents (from the war) he never had a chance. He is very successful in what he does, and on the surface, but his life's been a long struggle due to his personality. I left home when I went to university and I never stayed at that house for longer than a couple of days, ever again. It's tough, especially once we become aware of other children who are loved and cherished and not mistreated constantly. It can feel lonely and painful, and it's normal for a child to blame themselves, try to take responsibility for the parent's actions, or trying to help them. This also highlights the parental immaturity and inability to cope with adulthood.

    On the other hand, most psychiatrists I know on a personal level, have grown up with difficult parents or other situations that inspired a life-long interest in personality and behaviour. It's a logical outcome, for a child in that situation to become more 'in tune' and interested in motives and behaviour of others. One thing is worth remembering, though, we can't medically treat our families because we are too involved with them. This is even more true for psychoanalysing. So if they won't get help, emotional distancing to a safe position where they can no longer push our buttons as easily is the best tactic.

    @jannert : A couple of things worth remembering. Countertransferance is when a patient communicates their feelings by making those who interact with them feel the same way. Like feeling elated after a consultation with a manic patient, or depressed after seeing a depressed one. People with personality issues have a very strong ability to countertransfer their emotions, so in clinical practice, when you are dreading seeing a patient, for example, either they make you feel awful, or you don't think anything can help them, you feel defeated and avoidant, the safe bet is that's precisely what they are feeling about the therapy, and you. This 'vibing' such people give off can be felt in group situations also.

    Another thing is, every psychiatric symptom, every behaviour is on a continuum. Pretty much anything 'psychiatric' is experienced by most people on regular basis. This is why people freak out about mental illness, they subconsciously fear they can 'catch it' because they can relate to most symptoms. This is why people sometimes say 'You need to just stop that (feeling depressed, crazy, paranoid, anxious, add any symptom it applies). I also feel like that sometimes, but I snap myself out of it, why can't you?'

    What makes a behaviour or a symptom into a disorder is if they can't (pr won't, rarely) 'just snap out of it' and their behaviour creates problems in their interpersonal relationships and or function and quality of life. So, if someone gets passive aggressive at work because their boss is annoying them, or at home when they are tired, but they later apologise and can accept that they behaved inappropriately (at least some of the time) they are considered perfectly normal. Everyone has a quirk, everyone becomes a bit immature at times, down and out, anxious, it's a part of life. And then, you have others, who are never wrong and who as far as they are concerned behaved 100% appropriately in every fight or argument, and basically have no insight into their own behaviour, no matter how awful or ridiculous it gets. These are the people we talk about when we talk about personality disorders.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2014
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  3. Andrae Smith

    Andrae Smith Bestselling Author|Editor|Writing Coach Contributor

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    @jazzabel: it seems as though I'm meant to be a part of this discussion because I've been looking for some kind of explanations. There's a lot more to all of it than this (of course), but it's just confusing trying to understand her and be there for her, especially knowing that she doesn't have a clear view on reality. I want to be there to support her, but at the same time, I know I have to live my life without getting caught in the crossfire. For example the very fact that I want to live my life instead of live with her (which is really just a product of me growing up) is a part of her self esteem issues because she takes it as me not loving her because of how she treated us. No matter how many times I tell her it's okay, she did no harm, if anything I forgive her, she can't accept it for herself--bat that's only a side issue in this monster.

    How can I be there for her when she wavers between rage, a false mask of happiness (which she wears so not to burden me with things she thinks I don't know), and full on self-pity/loathing? She majored in sociology and is this close to finishing her degree. She even wants to go into counseling, but she can't even face her own demons. I'm not mad at her for anything. I don't judge her for anything, even what she's doing now. I just don't know what to do.

    Geez, now that I think about it, my friend was right to say there's a lot of drama in my family life. :rolleyes:
     
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  4. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    Well, I think that there's some circular definition here. If a person's behavior is just motivated by an unwillingness to ask for their needs, or an unwillingness to do something, and has no motivation to cause conflict or otherwise hurt/upset someone else, I don't call it passive aggression.

    Your not cleaning is just not wanting to clean, I assume. Or there could be some demand resistance, but I still wouldn't call it passive aggressive. If you promised to clean for a party, and then not only didn't clean, but strewed a little extra clutter around, and didn't mention the non-cleaning until the co-party-giver got home half an hour before the party, that's what I'd call passive aggressive.

    Similarly, if that old lady in another example just quietly kept her loneliness to herself, I wouljdn't call her passive aggressive. It might be indirect speech, or it might just be an inability or unwillingness to express her needs. If she craftily alluded to it in front of some other family member, a member that could be relied on to interrogate her until she (pseudo-unwillingly) pointed the finger at you, knowing that the family member would go over and storm at you, that's passive aggressive.
     
  5. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    Wikipedia defines it like this:
    For research purposes, the DSM-IV describes passive-aggressive personality disorder as a "pervasive pattern of negativistic attitudes and passive resistance to demands for adequate performance in social and occupational situations".

    I think that's the basic definition. However it can also branch out and become what they refer to (in the article) as 'catty,' if it's meant to cause harm and discomfort as well as simply avoid giving an 'adequate performance.'

    I suppose they're all forms of manipulation, under the umbrella term 'passive-aggressive,' but maybe to achieve different ends?
     
  6. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    I realize that you know your mother better than I do, but after reading the words of dozens and dozens of children of hoarders on a support group, I'm getting a flavor of emotional blackmail here. You did something that almost every person does--moved out when you reached adulthood--and she's using that to try to make you feel responsible for part of her unhappiness. She's trying to make you responsible for fixing her feelings, rather than accepting that that is her responsibility. And you can't fight back, because she wraps it in a layer of self-condemnation for how she treated you.

    And she still gets credit for trying not to burden you--when I can't help thinking that the extent to which she shows or hides her feelings/grievances may well be a carefully turned performance.

    I could be wrong. It's just that for years I thought that my mother was a little goofy, a little confused, unaware of what she was doing, and then when I started to change the dynamic it became clear that she was doing a whole lot more orchestrating of the situation than I ever realized. And that pattern--blaming the kids for misery, and fighting tooth and nail against the misery being fixed--was repeated over and over in the stories of the folks in the children of hoarders support group where I hang out.

    If I'm out of line, I'll back off, but I think that some freedom comes with the knowledge that the person is not buffeted, unwilling and helpless, but is instead steering deliberately into the storm, and often trying to attract others into the storm with them. And they will often fight tooth and nail against you if you try to take the wheel and steer them to safety.

    You didn't cause it, you don't have the power to fix it, and you don't have the responsibility to fix it.
     
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  7. jazzabel

    jazzabel Agent Provocateur Contributor

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    The thing is, these definitions are helpful when studying, they are there to 'normalise' between subjects and offer guidance to clinicians. However, they can also be misleading, if taken too literally.

    A patient comes to mind, who was the most successful real estate agent in town for over 30 years. Pillar of the community, by all accounts gregarious, sociable individual. Then, he gets reported to the police for sexually abusing his niece, and the morning of his arrest, he overdoses with her insulin that she kept in his fridge.

    I was on call when he arrived and the admission notes read as a desperate man wrongly accused. He had nothing but compassion for the poor child and was devastated. Staff all fell for this, he was that convincing. However, over the next few days, more information comes to light, all confirming that he did abuse the girl, for several years in fact. Watching his rhetoric change was incredible (in a wtf? kind of way), with words like 'bitch' and 'whore' used liberally to describe her, all of a sudden. From here on he basically decompensated, started terrorising the staff, verbal abuse like I never heard before, running away and overdosing repeatedly (no known history of psych problems) and carried on like this through the court case and later in prison.

    Arguably, he 'developed' Passive aggressive personality disorder when he was arrested, but his preexisting personality had to be very close. However, his successful life, full of certain types of responsibilities, isn't compatible with the DSM IV definition, even though that's exactly what he had all along, and if the whole police/court thing could just go away, he'd go right back to his highly demanding and successful job and a pivotal role in a number of local charities etc. But his psyche would remain the same. This is where a comprehensive knowledge of the entire continuum helps with understanding the DSM.

    I worked with paedophiles before, many of them are highly successful in their jobs etc, but they keep their disorders, both of personality and sexuality, hidden, sort of a double life, and when one life crosses into the other, you are in for a big surprise, sort of thing.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2014
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  8. Andrae Smith

    Andrae Smith Bestselling Author|Editor|Writing Coach Contributor

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    Thanks @ChickenFreak, that is a reasonable analysis of the situation and one worth considering. However, I have this thing about trying to see the best in people. I know she is responsible for her choices and the way she chooses to perceive and react to situations. But I think she is honestly just afraid. Whatever is in her that she can't face, it is holding her back. It's stopping her from facing reality as it is, and I think a part of it stems from a need to be in control.

    I've only given a small amount of information, so I hope I have't cast her in an ill light, especially when paired with comments on other threads. Maybe she is manipulating the situation without me knowing, but she's still my mom, a living human who deserves love as much as any of us. 3 or 4 years ago, I might have felt a little differently, but this shows me that there really is a medical, psychological issue at play.

    At the end of every situation, it comes down to (in her mind), "what's wrong with me that makes people not like me? Why can't I just be loved and accepted?" I think she's genuine in thinking that. Not justified though. She'd rather take the blame that can point back to her traumatized past than accept that she said something now, today, that hurt someone else's feelings.

    I think you're right to say it is not my fault, and it is generally beyond me. She doesn't want help, at least not from us, because it may just mean letting go of the way she viewed the world--as a perpetual victim of circumstance. She won't acknowledge that she's done wrong, but she'll point that there is just something wrong with her, and that was something ingrained in her at an early age, sadly.

    Her own parents passed her back and forth because neither really wanted her, had planned for her, or had the money to really feed another child. Her own parents and aunts and grandmother, laughed at her and called her names because she was dark skinned with short nappy hair, but none of them wanted to do her hair. hey made fun of her big lips. When her cousins came around, they picked on her, teased her, got her into trouble. And as she got older, things got a little better, but not enough to keep her from wanting to form her own path and getting in with the "wrong" crowd. She ended up in abusive relationships, in addition to having to work almost non stop and raise two kids almost on her own. I rememberwhen we had some family visiting and we all went to see The Lion King musical and our mom couldn't go. Cherelle and I thought she had to work (what she told us), but in reality (and I just found this out within the last year) is that no one wanted to help her pay for a ticket or even allow her to pay them back knowing that she had a stable, albeit limited, income. Not her mom, aunts, or grandma, who eagerly paid for Cherelle and me.

    But then of course there is the matter of her choices. We are all responsible for the choices we make and how we set ourselves up. She learned some things at a young age and went with them. I can't fault her for that. But being afraid of change or so set in having to hustle, scheme, and harden one's heart is not good. What she did as a parent, for all the ups and downs, produced to of the best and brightest kids our family has seen--and many people across the family acknowledge that and are continually watching us. She may have messed u, and made some poor choices, but in the end, I've learned a lot from her, what to and not to do, and I'm in college because of her. I'm successful because of steps she took.

    You aren't really wrong, CF, only speaking from the sliver of information provided. :) I've looked at my mom as "the enemy" for so long, even demonized her at times, but now that I'm older, I've got to humanize her. She's just fragile, lost, and scared, and it may be a medical condition now. I don't think she means to hurt people--that doesn't absolve her of responsibility--but she has trouble breaking out of an old frame of mind.
     
  9. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    You sound like a loving, caring and very perceptive person. I bet when the time comes you will make a fantastic parent yourself. Nice to see people learning, not only from their own experiences, but being sensitive to the experiences of others as well. I bet she's damn proud of you, despite her present problems.
     
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  10. Lewdog

    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

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    @Andrae Smith must have heard that saying, "Your kids will be worse than when you were a kid!" Andrae already admitted he was a hard head pain in the ass as a kid, so now he is trying to turn a new leaf to save his hide in the future.
     
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  11. Andrae Smith

    Andrae Smith Bestselling Author|Editor|Writing Coach Contributor

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    I try to be. Life has taught me much, especially after graduating high school. Some say I can't really call college "real life," but I don't suppose you could call it fake either ha ha. Regardless, the maturity jump that can come between 18 y/o and 20 y/o can be immense, especially for someone like me who has always been more cogitative. If anything, I realize people need love and I'm here to bring it when and if I can. I'm not perfect, I'll sure make a handful of mistakes, but that can't stop me from doing good unto others.

    Welp, fair enough. ;) gotta build up good karma ha ha! The universe has been good to me thus far, despite all of that, so maaaaybe I can balance out my "account" before the universe comes to "collect." :p
     
  12. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    Well, I can search for the best in my mother. I can say that she grew up with dysfunctional parents, that she probably has attachment and separation issues, that she never reached a number of emotional maturation milestones, that she probably had minor brain damage that affected her personality while leaving her intellect intact, and that she was probably truly frightened, perhaps afraid that she was going to cease to exist, when she wasn't the center of attention. I can give her credit for raising two reasonably functional kids in spite of those handicaps. She could have done better, even taking all that into account, but she also could have done much worse.

    But none of that made me capable of fixing her, or responsible for fixing her. I'm not asking you to hate your mother, I'm saying that her feelings are not your fault and her happiness is not your responsibility.

    And her unhappiness is not a product of your decisions and behavior. You didn't make her unhappy by moving out--if you stayed home, I'd bet that you would feel that that was causing part of her unhappiness. She was going to be unhappy either way. She doesn't have the skills needed to be happy. She might acquire them, she might not, but either way, her unhappiness is not due to you.
     
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  13. Andrae Smith

    Andrae Smith Bestselling Author|Editor|Writing Coach Contributor

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    Thanks, you're absolutely right about that. I guess I just wasn't thinking about it like that, but I was kinda taking the burden of her unhappiness. It's not my fault and I can't let myself feel guilty for living. I would just hate for her to get the wrong message from it whenever she has a little breakdown. But I guess you're right it isn't my responsibility. Still I like to do what I can (part of being the family's resident Superman ;)). But I won't let it weigh me down anymore.
     
  14. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    You indicated in an earlier post that your mom had quite an unhappy life that was not her fault—or yours, of course—and that, despite everything, she did her best to raise you 'right.' I know it's hard if people are intrinsically 'difficult' to deal with (and believe me, you never met MY mother) but maybe you'll soon be able to do some nice, unexpected things for your mom to show your appreciation for her.

    It sounds as if she's been sidelined her whole life by not really being wanted. Even to send her flowers for no particular occasion might give her a huge boost. And if they come with a note saying something along the lines of 'I know we don't always see eye-to-eye, but I really appreciate all you've done to ensure that my life will be a good one," might be just what she needs. Or maybe ask her out to dinner some evening, or take her on a 'date' to see a movie, or something like this. Don't pile it on too thick or too fast, or it will seem fake. But I suspect that you two may grow closer, now that you're old enough to fend for yourself AND stand up for yourself as well. I hope so, anyway.
     
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  15. Andrae Smith

    Andrae Smith Bestselling Author|Editor|Writing Coach Contributor

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    @jannert, that is touching and I want to. This reminds me of the summer of my senior year. I wasn't all the most considerate guy, especially when it came to asking me to do something. I was always shut away in my room, and I didn't even look at people talking to me. (Talk about disrespect! :mad:) Eventually I noticed she had stopped asking me to do things. I did my chores, but if she wanted something done at a certain time or in a certain way she just went on and did it. I felt so bad after I realized what I was doing. So when I made it back over breaks, I made sure I offered to do stuff and go out with her, even if it was just to the grocery store or running errands, or whatnot.

    I also remember cooking at my gma's sometimes and running out of food before she got there because I didn't cook enough. At the time, my sister and I had inadvertantly moved in, leaving mom and Lexi at the other house (we went to gma's for a weekend and got comfortable and just stopped going home. we were only around the corner though). Anyway, mom would show up and see that I cooked and ask if there was any left, but I could only say no because I was only thinking about the people who were at the house at the time. I didn't understand why she was so upset, back then, but now I realize she was just hoping someone would remember her, or was thinking of her.

    If I can find me a job and make my own income, I plan on treating her a little bit. I like to do things for people. I took my great-grandma out to lunch over the summer and I know she had a ball. Mom had work and wanted me to take Gma while I could because I was leaving soon, but I remembered to buy extra to bring home. She was happy. :)

    She always had this dream that I would become an architect or an engineer and I would build her a nice house in the future. I thought I would too, until I realized I wasn't going to be an architect. These days her dream is to have all her family together around her in a big house on a ranch somewhere open and peaceful. I admire that, I just wish she would chase it more instead of wishing someone would bring it to her. That may be her biggest issue, she expects people to do things for her and she's let down when she's unfulfilled. I won't feed in to "bad" behavior, but I'll try to be supportive. (The challenge is that she and my sister don't always see eye to eye. when they're good, they are good. When they're not, they are bad. It's like a more extreme version of what I already went through. My sister's got a miraculous memory and grasp on reality, my mom, not so much. I gotta find a way to stay neutral.)
     
  16. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    I wonder, from what you've said, if maybe your mom's dream isn't so much to have a ranch house, but for somebody to love her enough to give it to her. In other words, the reason she is waiting for others to 'do' for her is because it's the act of doing for her that she really craves. I mean, she could win big in the lottery and buy all the houses she could ever want, but she'd still feel unsatisfied. In other words, she's not looking for a house. She's really looking for an indication that she's loved.

    There may be a bottomless pit there, meaning you could NEVER do enough now to satisfy that craving. But on the other hand, a few little gestures (when they are unconnected to anything you might 'want' in return) might help to turn the tide.
     
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  17. Andrae Smith

    Andrae Smith Bestselling Author|Editor|Writing Coach Contributor

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    Hmmm. don't know why I didn't really put the two together. I think you're right about here really wanting the sign that she's loved. I bet she'd be pleased with whatever we can give. I just wish she wouldn't beat herself up so much about not getting things exactly the way she wants them. If there is one thing I want to help her do, or at least that I hope she can accomplish in time, it's to break out of her victimization mentality.

    This whole discussion is an interesting one and has really cleared up some things for me. It's also brought to light some good character study considerations, so I'm pleased with that.
     
  18. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    Thinking here, that another way to get across the idea that she's appreciated is to ask her opinion about things. This might not work if she's very controlling, but if you can just say 'mom, I was wondering what you think about this ....if you were in my shoes what would you do?' Make it clear that you'll be making up your own mind, but that you'd value her input.

    Everybody likes having their opinion taken into consideration, don't they? It's subtle and costs nothing. I think if you do this gradually, so she doesn't think you're up to something, you might do a lot to break down barriers.

    I think everybody, or nearly everybody, goes through a transition with their parents, where the parents no longer have the authority they once did. Depending on what happens next, you can become adults together. Sometimes this works, sometimes it doesn't. But for every person I know whose relationship with their parents has deteriorated since reaching adulthood, I can name four or five whose relationships have improved. I don't know if it's that the child has reached maturity, or if the parents have realised the 'child' is no longer their responsibility, or whatever. But something often changes, and very often for the better.

    This did not happen in my case, but I've seen it happen in many others.
     
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  19. Andrae Smith

    Andrae Smith Bestselling Author|Editor|Writing Coach Contributor

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    That's actually a really good idea. I just have to get over myself enough to actually ask for other people's opinions. That's not something I'm used to doing, as I've always kept things close to my chest. I think my mom is struggling with the transition. She's accepted it more for me because I pretty much forced it on her. That was the major bone of contention over the years, I was never one to simply submit or be controlled. My sister, on the other hand, was the more compassionate of us, and she is just at that age where she needs to be living her own life. I just don't think mom wants to face that. We're grown and ready to live and I think mom might just fear we'll leave. including her in things may definitely make her feel more loved and included. I just have to break old habits. (I generally lived a secretive life.)
     
  20. 123456789

    123456789 Contributor Contributor

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    Nothing more unattractive than needy parents :S
     

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