playing with an idea for a crime novel...

Discussion in 'Plot Development' started by Shandeh, Jun 5, 2013.

  1. captain kate

    captain kate Senior Member

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    I'm a CSI.
     
  2. Cogito

    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    Interesting. Specialized?
     
  3. Shandeh

    Shandeh Active Member

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    Thanks again all :) Captain Kate, that's really neat. You and Jazzabel would be awesome to talk to both together in a chatroom regarding what parts of realism can suffer for the sake of a story. From what I know real profilers don't actually see any crime scene [crime scene photos, sure, but not in person], make any arrest, or go directly to the morgue to talk to the ME, but in books and TV shows, they nearly always do all those things. For the story's sake.

    I was thinking re the acid flashbacks idea that the unsub, who's in his mid to late twenties, might have had his drink spiked at a party, and his trip would have involved an angel telling him about demons and informing him of what he "had to do" to kill them. Being a psychopath with a history of animal torture and mutilation, he would then have taken that and run with it... but I know absolutely nothing about what is "normal" for a trip. I've never taken drugs. So I don't know if that's even possible. All I know is that with acid, it stays with you forever, even if you only take it once.
     
  4. captain kate

    captain kate Senior Member

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    Yes. My second Bachelor's is in Criminal Justice: Forensics Track. My classes were to allow for me to obtain a job as a crime scene investigator. Where I'm at, I'm not a sworn officer (although I am allowed to carry due to the areas we're in for a lot of the crimes.) My duties consist of searching the area for any physical evidence necessary for the detective to do his or her job. Believe it or not, there is a command structure for these things. The uniformed officer is generally the one who finds the victim and his/her job (beyond calling it in) is to seal the area off. Once I, or one of my coworkers gets there, then determine the entrance and exit point (only one point to enter and exit. Failure to do that is why the 20+ Bruno Mali footprints OJ left at the murder scene weren't admissible in court.) and it's my scene until the detective shows up. Then it's his or her's baby from there on out.

    I spent most of my time hunting shell casings, taking DNA samples, analyzing blood spray patterns and making sure everything is cataloged properly for trial. There are times I have to sit in for autopsy's (not as bad as you think. I just compare things to various foods and it doesn't bother me that much) and go to court. And I forgot the lovely time of having to get the DNA from the loo. Nothing like grabbing fecal matter to make your day. :(

    Sad thing is, I can be sitting at a scene, the victim is cold and obviously dead from a gunshot wound, but he/she cannot be declared dead until the ME gets there. Kind of silly if you ask me when it's painfully obvious they're gone.
     
  5. captain kate

    captain kate Senior Member

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    I don't know about that. Can't tell you everything I know, but that statement about them not seeing the scenes...may...uh hum...cough cough...not...cough cough..be true. There's plenty that's done that isn't. First off, unless the murderer crosses state lines, the FBI cannot get involved unless the local jurisdiction requests their assistance. Than there's a certain number of similar murders need to take place before agencies will call it a serial killer. Fortunately, we don't have any down here right now (knock on wood) but the nations first conviction on DNA came from here. Look up Timothy Spencer (the southside strangler) and read up on it. Patricia Cornwall's first novel is a fictionalized version of what happened from when she worked in the State Police crime lab.

    Unfortunately, I cannot tell you 99% of what's done to deal with these guys. And bear in mind, if your killer is using a knife, that is BY FAR the nastiest crime scene to walk into. I'll take a head blown off over a knifing any day. Don't forget to do ballistics research because someone couldn't fire a .44 in a house without it going through most of the walls. In an apartment? The thing liable to go through 2 or 3 units. .357 is stout too and a 9mm at 147grain will go through walls too. Then there's items such as blood spray and other items that will be probably too difficult for you to keep up with.

    Here is one thing: Riga Mortis doesn't set in until a hour or so (some cases it's earlier but most aren't) and goes away after 12-24 hrs. So, any body found after that period of time will not be stiff like that. Secondly, if it's been lying on it's back or stomach very long, the blood will pool down there and change the skin color. I'm tired as hell and can't remember the term off the top of my head tonight.

    And if it's been in the water? Give it up for trying to identify that body without either dental or dna records. 24 hours in the water and everyone (doesn't matter what race or sex) will come out black as tar. There is no way to take race or sex off the bat. So there's a lot that goes into a realistic crime novel, which is why a lot of the folks who write them have a background in the field in some way (Grisham is a lawyer...and I've had the...misfortune of meeting him and that's all I'm going to say.).

    If you're looking for firearms info, I can give you the basics, but I can't even do ballistics mathematics without having a table or laptop with me. It's rather complicated. There's speed from the muzzle, then x feet away, air density and gravity, size of the round and whether it's full metal jacket or jacketed hollow point to take into consideration.
     
  6. Shandeh

    Shandeh Active Member

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    And this is why it's hard to write about what goes on in another country... here in Aus it's all very departmentalized. I'll stress again I'm not a cop, or a lawyer, or any of that, so I don't know what goes on behind closed doors, but I've been to a few "this is what we do" events. It's not unusual for a beat cop to be sent to check out reports of human remains being found, but that beat cop usually isn't involved in the investigation at all. It's not unusual for the arresting officer to be a beat cop when the murder is a crime of passion and the killer is unlikely to kill again, but they send in the TRG [our version of SWAT] for armed and dangerous offenders, especially when those offenders are likely to attack the officers trying to arrest them.

    From my research it's technically 3 murders at different locations before it's a serial killer, and the line between serial and spree is a very fine one... but there have been people labelled serial killers who only killed two [one kept four captive and from that we can conclude he intended to kill more than just the two...]. The killer in this novel is a strangler who fits in the "mixed" category... in some ways he's super-organized [forensic counter-measures, posed bodies, completely uniform MO, tracks his victims for weeks before killing them], but he's a compulsive enucleator, and the way he kills is more of a "disorganized" trait. Also a "disorganized" trait is the fact that he leaves the bodies where he kills them, but that "serves a purpose"... he WANTS them to be found. He's only killed two at this point in the story but from where I'm sitting it doesn't take a genius to expect him to kill again. Or should I add one more victim, make it absolutely clear-cut that he's definitely a serial killer in the eyes of the authorities? [thus explaining why the local authorities would have asked for the FBI's help]

    Oh, I have one question. Where is the BAU actually based? Is it REALLY Quantico, or somewhere else?
     
  7. captain kate

    captain kate Senior Member

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    I can't tell you where the BAU is headquarterd at. You may be right, you may be wrong, that's all I can say. As from spree vs serial killings...isn't a fine line. There is a clear delineation between the two. Serial killers, whether organized or disorganized, had patterns to their killings, while spree killers do not. Serial killings, up to 90%+, have a element of sexual release to them. For them, the act of killing gives the same release that an orgasm does for everyone else. If I could remember where I stored in one this thing, I have a 180 page report of 'sex based crimes,' which serial killing is a part.

    The psychology involved in serial killing goes far beyond the plain jane 'psychotic' behavior. There's lots of different factors involved, but the two categories and sexual elements tend to stay the same. Why do they tend to pick certain types of females, and in some cases males? The victim fits the 'criteria' of looks, dress, behavior that both arouses the killer and allows for release during the kill. Now why they're driven to kill, no one really (including the shrinks-they're just making educated guesses) knows.

    Things are compartmentalized here too. Once the evidence is collected it goes to the forensic pathologists and science types and I don't see it again. The only thing I can tell you about Quantico is that it has one hell of a crime lab. It puts our state one to shame. They also have every firearm that's been recovered at a crime scene from the 1920's on in storage there also. Furthermore, any weapon bought in the USA (and replacement barrels for that matter too) have to fire 2 test rounds, which are cataloged and stored at Quantico too.

    It's very impressive for someone who has seen it.
     
  8. captain kate

    captain kate Senior Member

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    From my research it's technically 3 murders at different locations before it's a serial killer, and the line between serial and spree is a very fine one... but there have been people labelled serial killers who only killed two

    Are you referring to geographical or locally? As stated before organized and unorganized have different ways of leaving the bodies behind. An organized won't got to the same spot but he/she will dispose of the victims in the same geographic area normally because it's their killing ground.

    Unorganized are more likely to drop off at the same two or three places-and it'll be close to their home also. These are critical differences.
     
  9. Shandeh

    Shandeh Active Member

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    Locally.

    By my understanding:

    3 murders in one building at the same time is a triple murder. Multiple [I have no idea what the threshold is for how many constitutes "mass"] in the same location at the same time is mass murder. There's a time threshold outside of which the kills become categorized either spree or serial depending on traits the killer displays, and my understanding is that in some cases, it can be difficult to identify whether a killer is spree or serial, though the borderline cases 'usually' get categorized as serial, simply because one distinct, defining factor of a spree killer is that they typically end up dead. Suicide, or suicide-by-cop.

    That's just my understanding, though... I'm not a cop, not in the field at all, never had training on the topic. Plus my source is the internet, and we all know how unreliable that can be.
     
  10. jazzabel

    jazzabel Agent Provocateur Contributor

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    [MENTION=3956]captain kate[/MENTION]: All this is absolutely fascinating! Btw, the word is 'lividity' or 'livor mortis' as opposed to 'rigor mortis' which you also described. I have a background in forensic psych, but purely from an 'interview the perp in prison to asess for insanity defense' pov, and otherwise, inpatient and outpatient care. I don't know a lot about the law enforcement side of things.
    I'm working through your blog entries, lots of useful info there too. Thanks for sharing!
     
  11. jazzabel

    jazzabel Agent Provocateur Contributor

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    [MENTION=54572]Shandeh[/MENTION]: Mass murder is when there are four or more victims in one location, with no cooling-off period, and the crime is committed either by one person or an organisation (such as government, or Breivik).

    Spree killing occurs at different locations, also, no cooling off period but the crimes are committed by one or two individuals (think Bonnie and Clyde, Natural Born Killers etc).

    Serial murder is typically sexually motivated, it involves specific psychopathology (as captain kate described), the murders have a so called 'signature' (essential component) and they are committed over longer period of time, with cooling off period. As serial killers escalate, the cooling off might be shorter, kills bolder, victimology different, but signature remains the same.
     
  12. Mckk

    Mckk Member Supporter Contributor

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    Hey Shandeh, your MC's name's been on my mind a lot because I swear it's a real French word, and I was right:
    http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/beau?q=Beau

    You might want to consider changing the name. I saw "beau" used just the other day in a historical romance to refer to someone's "lover/boyfriend". It might ruin the atmosphere of a crime novel somewhat to have your MC called, essentially, "Handsome" (and Handsome walked into the crime scene. Handsome's really having a bad day - you get the idea)

    Beau is really rather a common word (it's where Beaux or Belle come from I think - certainly related - I don't actually speak French so someone else can correct me) so I'm not sure you'd get away with it.
     
  13. A.L.Mitchell

    A.L.Mitchell Active Member

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    This story sounds interesting and even though it might be done before, I'm looking forward where you take the story.

    I have, however, don't like the name but I don't know why, it just strange considering he works for the FBI.

    Will you keep us updated?
     
  14. Shandeh

    Shandeh Active Member

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    Thanks all for your thoughts :)

    I really like his name [obviously, or I wouldn't have picked it] and I am aware it's a common word and what it means, but a few people now have indicated it jars them a little because of its meaning. Is it as awkward if for all official business the team refers to one another by their last names? They would anyway, for the most part, by my understanding. [MC's last name is Taylor] The other thought I have running around in my mind is that perhaps Beau is a nickname, one of the many Emma's given him, and this one's just... stuck. It's not his actual name, just what his friends call him. Then he'll introduce himself to the new medical examiner in town as Agent [new first name] Taylor. I probably need to rename one of his colleagues too - presently I have her as Harper Rose. I like unusual names...

    Edit; I certainly will :) I won't post a huge amount of it anywhere online because I'm hoping to be published, but certainly sections I'm having issues with :)
     
  15. jazzabel

    jazzabel Agent Provocateur Contributor

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    I think you should leave the name. I too was "what kind of name is this?" but as I kept reading, it just became natural to refer to him by that name. Yes, use Taylor in all the official communications, and Beau is his first name. There's a detective character in Michael Connelly's books, he's called Hieronymus Bosch, but everyone refers to him as "Bosch" (including the author) but his first name pops up here and there as well.
    Most important thing is that you like the name. The readers will love it too, at the end of a good story :)
     
  16. Shandeh

    Shandeh Active Member

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    Thanks Jazzabel :)

    I think I'll leave it be, I can't think of him as anything but Beau Taylor now and it would feel really weird to change his name. I also really like being able to refer to him in official communications [including meetings] as Agent Taylor, and then when he's talking to his family/friends he's Beau. It's a name that implies affection, and because he is written from first person perspective, it's not used a huge amount. His de facto calls him Beau, and his best friend calls him Beau [in casual communication], but most people call him Taylor in the course of the story.

    Hieronymus is probably the most ridiculous name out. But clearly it works because of how Connelly's books are written. I'm nowhere near that standard, but I can aspire to whatever I like, can I not?
     
  17. jazzabel

    jazzabel Agent Provocateur Contributor

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    Yes you can ;)
     

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