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  1. Bethany35
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    Bethany35 Active Member

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    Please explain to me middle america

    Discussion in 'Debate Room' started by Bethany35, Sep 18, 2015.

    over the recent minor Islamophobia fracas where a boy brought a homemade clock to school which looked slightly like a bomb from a hollywood movie - except for the lack of dynamite attached to it, I wonder if anyone can explain to me why there are these assumptions in middle America that seem to spell out an unwillingness to understand the rest of the world.
    I love America, don't get me wrong, I would just like to understand.
     
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  2. Wreybies
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    Wreybies The Ops Pops Operations Manager Staff Contest Administrator Supporter Contributor

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    One thing that's most important to understand is that American media is a double edged sword. We love to export it, and other cultures love to import it, but it has a tendency to paint the whole of America with a rather inflammatory brush. Educated Americans are flabbergasted by what happened to that boy. It's an embarrassment and it's shaming. We do see this. And just to play devil's advocate, it's not like the UK doesn't have its bevy of xenophobes and "Little Englanders". It happens everywhere and anywhere.
     
  3. BrianIff
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    BrianIff I'm so piano, a bad punctuator. Contributor

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    So if that incident was indeed based on prejudice -- which it may have been -- why does that prejudice exist in the first place? How come people don't educate themselves? Probably the same reasons why they don't in my country: Exposure to generational prejudice; media (not limited to news -- felt like I might be watched first time I read Al-Jazeera); competing interests. I'd imagine there are similar phenomena everywhere.
     
  4. Bethany35
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    Bethany35 Active Member

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    am aware of the minority Fail, Scum, Mirage and Expose readers who support UKIP and other all white- English groups, yes they are a problem for us- and our government hasn't done a lot to help matters.
    Am actually glad the school showed their ignorance here as it means we can all learn from it.
     
  5. Nicoel
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    Nicoel Contributing Member

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    Because people were scared after 9/11 and placing the blame on all Muslims was a way to target that fear and to have a common enemy.

    It's easier to hate than it is to be afraid.
     
  6. Wreybies
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    Wreybies The Ops Pops Operations Manager Staff Contest Administrator Supporter Contributor

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    One last note as regards how American media tends to make we Americans look like assholes, Russell Howard presents the difference between media coverage of certain events, US vs. UK. He's spot on and this is a BIG part of why things often look so inflammatory from the outside. American media only has one volume: MAXIMUM!!! :bigeek::bigeek::bigeek:

     
  7. Bethany35
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    Bethany35 Active Member

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    I believe The Guardian, quite an educated read, is available worldwide at Guardian.co.uk / maybe guardian.com for the rest of you , they tend to not just let anything get in the papers.
     
  8. GingerCoffee
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    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    So what is it then you don't understand?

    You guys even have your own Truthers. :)

    9/11 Truthers
    7/7 Truthers

    #we're.all.human
     
  9. Bethany35
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    Bethany35 Active Member

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    I suppose we have our own fear-mongerers, i would never call them truthers!
     
  10. Cave Troll
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    Cave Troll Bite the bullet, do your own thing. Contributor

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    First off you have to look at your 'average' American citizen. They care more about being Patriotic, and God Fearing. They don't like to have to think critically, and therefore take what they are told as 'truth'. That and they all have this incessant need to have the latest gismos and doodads that don't improve their life. We have a failing educational system that gets worse and worse. The national reading level is that of a 5th grader. When somebody of Status say that something happened by this or that group of people, then you get to see the idiocy and lack of critical thinking come into play. Hence when you say something like: The terrorist were Islamic in faith. This gets warped into hate all Muslims. And it does not stop at Muslims, as there have been many cases of Sihk Hindus that have been attacked in ignorance by the same people who misconstrued the original statement. When the reality is that it was an extremist ideology and not the religion that was the cause for the entire ordeal. But this would happen regardless of what religion or region the attackers originated, you would most likely see the same result.

    I love my country, but it needs to get educated. Seems all this reality TV B.S. is really rotting peoples minds.

    @Bethany35 Fear mongers are everywhere. My take on it is: Fear sells, and people seem to love it for some strange reason.
     
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  11. GingerCoffee
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    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    You may not call the 7/7 truthers that, but a lot of people in the US and the UK do.

    7/7 Truthers
    #we're.all.human
     
  12. BrianIff
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    BrianIff I'm so piano, a bad punctuator. Contributor

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    That moment when you realize you almost forget it's the weekend. :p
     
  13. Bethany35
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    Bethany35 Active Member

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    I don't deny 7/7 was horrid , no one could but it gets taken out of proportion recently with the immigrant crisis. Lots of screaming that we might be letting terrorists through and how our country is packed as it is, actually we can home them and the majority of these people are not terrorists but themselve s running from a terror.
     
  14. Bookster
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    Bookster Banned

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    The fact that the clock story made national and, apparently, international news is proof that such incidents are rare and generally considered outrageous. I didn't read a single cogent defense of the school's and police department's actions (though such authority-worshippers certainly exist).

    National self-hatred of the type exhibited by the aptly-named @ Cave Troll is rare here in the US and isn't in any way helpful.

    Also, please disabuse yourself of the notion that bigotry is a middle-American trait. It exists in all areas of the country (the world, actually).
     
  15. Bethany35
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    Bethany35 Active Member

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    oh am aware of bigots, don't worry , I usually g o to talk to someone else when they start up. My dad is what I call an eco-whiner, not so pro America as I am.
    And yeah I know these cases are rare, as was the pastor in Florida who put the Quran on trial and burnt it.
     
  16. GingerCoffee
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    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    :confused: Umm, do you know what a Truther is?

    It's a conspiracy theory believer, in particular, false beliefs about the people behind the terrorist event.

    It's like Watergate, you attach the new lexicon, 'gate' to all kinds of scandals and people understand the connotation.

    Birthers believe Obama was born in Kenya.

    7/7 Truthers believe the London train bombing was really carried out by the UK government and Israel.
     
  17. Bethany35
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    Bethany35 Active Member

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    Ginger thats the first time I ever heard of 7/7 truthers. I heard a conspiracy theory about how "convenient" 9/11 was for Bush who already wanted to attach the middle east and that perhaps Osama was hiding in America - proved wrong, of course, but first time anyone said our government and Israel were responsible for 7/7. Yikes, freaking nutcases. Why would the British government want to drop a bomb on its own country?
     
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  18. GingerCoffee
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    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    These people are crazy. Of course the UK wasn't behind 7/7 anymore than the US government was behind 9/11. I only wanted to point out the crazies are everywhere, not just here in the Midwest.
     
  19. EdFromNY
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    EdFromNY Hope to improve with age Supporter Contributor

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    A certain percentage of US residents are certifiable assholes. They come in many shapes and sizes (although in my experience, obesity is a significant component) and they find many different ways to be assholes. There are, as @GingerCoffee already mentioned, conspiracy-theory assholes; racist assholes; socially-inappropriate assholes; religious-zeal assholes; gun-nut assholes; traffic assholes...I could go on. One thing that the vast majority of them seem to have in common is that they love attention and will say or do almost anything to get it. And in a media-frenzied environment such as the US has at the moment, with a 24 hour news cycle that is almost impossible to fill, assholes are a very important part of the puzzle, because even people who aren't assholes get some kind of thrill over watching and reading about them. And now that the Patron Saint of the Assholes - Donald Trump - is running for President, there are no limits.

    The thing is, while there is no definite Asshole Percentage available, anecdotal evidence suggests that they are, in fact, a minority of the population. So, please don't do what the assholes always do - group blame. Some of us know better.
     
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  20. Bethany35
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    Bethany35 Active Member

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    hmm , obese people being assholes? religious assholes I do know about that, but people who are obese have problems caused to a large extent by fast food chains.
     
  21. Steerpike
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    Steerpike Felis amatus Supporter Contributor

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    Fast food chains are inanimate objects, or does McD's now have some brown shirts that go around ramming cheeseburgers down people's throats?
     
  22. Steerpike
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    Steerpike Felis amatus Supporter Contributor

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  23. Link the Writer
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    Link the Writer Flipping Out For A Good Story. Contributor

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    Allow Hank Green to explain this very issue. Frankly, he does it better than I would. :D



    Basically, it all has to do with fear. As much as I hate this overly-done phrase, it's fitting here: "People fear what they don't understand." People from Group A don't understand Group B, so there's a lot of fear and distrust for people of Group B, and certain folks play on that fear, exacerbate that fear. It doesn't even have to be Muslims. It can be black people, gay people, Jews, anyone that's "different", that "steps outside the norm" from Group A. As Grandmaster Yoda once said, "Fear is the path to the Dark Side. Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, and hate leads to suffering." The only way one can combat this fear is, like Hank said, in our brains.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2015
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  24. EdFromNY
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    EdFromNY Hope to improve with age Supporter Contributor

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    I didn't say that obese people are assholes. I said a large number of assholes are obese. That allows for the possibility that the majority of obese people might, in fact, be non-assholes.
     
  25. Ben414
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    While I agree that fear has a role, I disagree that it all has to do with fearing what you don't understand. There are studies that have indicated discrimination against blacks from blacks (not as large as the discrimination from whites, but still statistically significant above the mean).

    I think the biases that form from our natural instinct to detect patterns in the information we process is a large cause as well. Many people don't understand the basic concepts of probability and statistics, so we interpret us consistently seeing blacks as criminals or Muslims as terrorists in the media as a pattern that is correlated with race or religion instead of understanding that other systemic factors might be the real cause or understanding that the media highlights these issues because they sell or understanding that randomness may be a role, etc.
     
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