Political Correctness in Writing

Discussion in 'Character Development' started by Cacian, Dec 23, 2011.

  1. Cacian

    Cacian Banned

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    You sound extremely unsebtlng yourself.
    If you have a problem can you refer it to a mod.
    Yet again you cannoty help yourself with your silly remarks.
    PLEASE do NOT SPOIL THIS THREAD AGAIN.
     
  2. cruciFICTION

    cruciFICTION Contributor Contributor

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    Ugh, "black" is slang when you're referring to people. What you can't use is slurs. You can't use words like "spic" or "gook" as insults, because it's racist. Apparently, you can use words like "nigger", though, at least, if you're dark-skinned you can.
    A good example of this is on a webshow called "Next Time on Lonny". In the 6th (and still most recent) episode, Lonny spends time with a lot of black people who use the word "nigger", but through the whole episode (because he's a bit trashy in this episode) he only uses the word "nucka".

    Political correctness is easy, though.
    Thanks to anti-censorship laws and things like disclaimers, you can have Edward Norton in American History X say the line, "What is that? Is that weed? Weed is for niggers!"
    If you're worried about political correctness for everyday stuff, don't be. Political correctness exists only in the media, and it exists only for the sake of capitalism. Papers will sell less copies if they start displaying racist, anti-Semitic articles. News channels will get huge drops in their ratings if they let out words like "fuck" or "cunt".

    Really, though, in your own personal life, it all comes down to what kind of person you want to be. If you want to be a racist, fine, but it's not going to get you many friends. Swearing is okay with most people these days, and sexist jokes are some of the funniest ones out there because nobody really believes in being actually sexist, and the people who do don't have any friends either.

    And now we wait for someone to report this post for containing slurs and swears. Woo.
    Please note: if you report this post for containing slurs and swears, you've missed the point of the post and should probably just ignore it instead.
     
  3. cruciFICTION

    cruciFICTION Contributor Contributor

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    Ugh, "black" is slang when you're referring to people. What you can't use is slurs. You can't use words like "spic" or "gook" as insults, because it's racist. Apparently, you can use words like "nigger", though, at least, if you're dark-skinned you can.
    A good example of this is on a webshow called "Next Time on Lonny". In the 6th (and still most recent) episode, Lonny spends time with a lot of black people who use the word "nigger", but through the whole episode (because he's a bit trashy in this episode) he only uses the word "nucka".

    Political correctness is easy, though.
    Thanks to anti-censorship laws and things like disclaimers, you can have Edward Norton in American History X say the line, "What is that? Is that weed? Weed is for niggers!"
    If you're worried about political correctness for everyday stuff, don't be. Political correctness exists only in the media, and it exists only for the sake of capitalism. Papers will sell less copies if they start displaying racist, anti-Semitic articles. News channels will get huge drops in their ratings if they let out words like "fuck" or "cunt".

    Really, though, in your own personal life, it all comes down to what kind of person you want to be. If you want to be a racist, fine, but it's not going to get you many friends. Swearing is okay with most people these days, and sexist jokes are some of the funniest ones out there because nobody really believes in being actually sexist, and the people who do don't have any friends either.

    And now we wait for someone to report this post for containing slurs and swears. Woo.
    Please note: if you report this post for containing slurs and swears, you've missed the point of the post and should probably just ignore it instead.
     
  4. Cacian

    Cacian Banned

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    I am refering to Slang to refer to those words.
    Some argued that Slang can be used effectively to communicate something in a story.
    I am thinking about Slang clashing with political correctness.
     
  5. cruciFICTION

    cruciFICTION Contributor Contributor

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    Sure you are, but what you said earlier was incorrect. Slang and Political Correctness are mutually exclusive.
     
  6. mammamaia

    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

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    ...to me, it's kowtowing to commonly-held societal mores... which i most often find to be from ridiculous to destructive...

    ...only if i'm writing something that points out how stupid it is...

    ...NO!... first of all, it's impossible to write anything that will 'not offend anyone'!... no matter what you write, you're going to offend someone... and secondly, if a writer feels s/he must pander to this or that group's idea of what is 'acceptable' and what is not, then imo, they should probably find another profession...

    ...the best writers of all time have first of all been honest ones, have written what they see and know to be the untrammeled reality of their subject matter... they had the courage to tell the truth, often in societies where they might have to suffer for their boldness in not following the 'official line'...

    ...i believe that anyone wanting to be a writer of either fiction or non-fiction should be prepared to dedicate themselves to writing the truth, and nothing but... even in fiction, where much is made up, we can still stay true to the realities of human nature and the worlds/lives that humans build for themselves...

    ...ok, the sermon's over... :rolleyes:
     
  7. Yoshiko

    Yoshiko Contributor Contributor

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    I don't care at all about being politically correct in fiction. In fact, I will (and have) even mock(ed) my own race/nationality/gender/sexuality/hobbies and political/spiritual/religious beliefs when the time call(ed) for it. If my character is likely to make fun of someone for being X, or ignore/hurt someone because they're Y, or use certain terminology then I will write it no matter how offensive. It is just a story and I do not treat my characters as a mouthpiece for my views.
     
  8. Gallowglass

    Gallowglass Contributor Contributor

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    If anyone is offended by you describing one of your characters as 'black,' then they're the ones with the problem, not you. Ignore the self-perpetuating rubbish that comes out of the mouths of any high-minded busybody and write your own story how you think you should tell it.

    Personally, I'd take it as a complement if the PC lobby found my work offensive: it would prove that my representation of the medieval setting was accurate.
     
  9. Brandon P.

    Brandon P. Active Member

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    I have a lot of people of color in my stories, and I always describe at least one of their "ethnic" physical characteristics when I introduce them. My fear is that if I don't, people will imagine my characters as white due to the subconscious Eurocentric assumption that white people are the default people.
     
  10. joanna

    joanna Active Member

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    I have similar issues, and what I've done so far is get into characterization and some of the storyline before I somehow make the race of the character apparent. The reader may assume the character is white at first, but if they do, the assumption is corrected (relatively) soon enough; additionally, maybe that general presumption is shot down a bit in the process. For minor background characters, I don't even bother getting into race; let the reader form their own visuals.

    One thing that irks me (and I read an article about this some time back, too) is when white authors describe the race of any character (even background ones) who are not white, but don't mention a character is white because it's apparently the default. Even worse, sometimes you see colorful descriptions (no pun intended) of all characters except the minorities: "At the train station stood a man in a suit, tie undone, hair matted to his head; a woman with a beak nose wearing a flowery blouse; and an Asian woman." As if we're supposed to simply conjure up our universal stock image of the Asian woman, but white folks are such a diverse people they each need a unique description. Come on.

    I really don't think my writing is PC, primarily when I get into details of the lives of prostitutes. But racial issues are something I particularly like playing with. Real life people have prejudices and sometimes they're racist, even subtly so, and my characters reflect that. Subtle (sometimes subconscious) fear of black people is something I particularly like to highlight.
     
  11. cruciFICTION

    cruciFICTION Contributor Contributor

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    I don't usually describe my characters all that much. All of my characters (so far) are white anyway. It's not so much that I don't want to add in character's of other races. It's just that they don't fit a whole lot of the time. My main characters? They aren't black. Supporting characters? They aren't black either. They're all just white people.

    Personally, I think it'd be insulting if I did make characters black or asian or brown just for the sake of doing it. Token characters are disgusting.
     
  12. pumpkin

    pumpkin New Member

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    I did have an idea in my angelic/norse story that one of the four Archangel characters, who each have major Houses descending from them, spends all of his time gazing into the last remaining Light of God (god has fallen from heaven/become distanced and weakened) and his proximity and the lights intensity has burned his skin brown...

    But I figured that probably wouldn't go down all that well... =S <holds breath>
     
  13. iabanon

    iabanon New Member

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    The point is Political Correctness gets in the way of truth. When you write a story you have to be true to that story. If you want to portray real people then you have to portray all types. Unless you live in Narnia.
    And there are varying levels from a person who makes an off the cuff remark to a person who won't hire a certain coloured or gendered person for a job. (and yes, this includes whites. I have been refused jobs both because of my colour and gender)
     
  14. JimmyNic

    JimmyNic New Member

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    I'd say that anything you can be politically incorrect about is actually a vital part of your character, even if it conforms to the "norm". For example I'm a white, straight, middle-class male, living in England. If someone wrote me as a character in the book those would all be significant factors. If you are writing a complete character you can't make offhand remarks about them that would be construed as offensive.

    You might still run into the problem of Tokenism, but again that's an example of poor writing more than it is offensive. What's really bad about stereotypes is that they are an incomplete view of the world. In real life this has some dire consequences - in fiction the problem is your narrative is shallow.
     
  15. Link the Writer

    Link the Writer Flipping Out For A Good Story. Contributor

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    I...think I know what you mean...

    Still, would it be all right to make fun of yourself?

    I mean, I'm hearing impaired in real life (been that way since birth) so if I make my protagonist hearing impaired and have him crack jokes about his hearing issues, would that be offensive? I don't mean like that's all he is. For example, he may say this to someone that's irritating him: "I'm sorry. I think my battery just died, so I couldn't hear a word you just said. See ya!"

    Or if he heard something his friends couldn't, he might say, "Wow, what's wrong with your hearing? Even I could hear that."

    ...Okay, I suspect I didn't get your message at all. Sorry that I didn't.

    Le' EDIT: Okay, I felt this was the perfect place to put this, since this topic IS about political correctness.

    In one of my mysteries, my cast is of various races and nationality. Out of the five protagonists, one's Canadian and the other's Japanese. In my sci-fi, my protagonist is a black woman. What should I do about this? What are your thoughts? (NOTE: They're this way because that's how I imagined them, that's how they first appeared in my head.)
     
  16. mammamaia

    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

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    why do you think you should do anything about it?
     
  17. Link the Writer

    Link the Writer Flipping Out For A Good Story. Contributor

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    Um, are you saying that I should quit worrying and write it the way I want to? Who cares if two of my protagonists are from Japan and Canada respectively and that my sci-fi character is a black woman?
     
  18. cruciFICTION

    cruciFICTION Contributor Contributor

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    If it's a major part of the story, then we should care. Are black people persecuted in your Sci-Fi story? Are women persecuted? Are black women persecuted (bad idea. Don't fuck with them)?

    And yeah, who cares if they're from Japan or Canada? Unless other characters are American, in which case they might put shit on the Canadian, I guess. :p

    Just write the way you want to. If you draw too much attention to it, they run the risk of seeming token. If you don't draw attention to it, then people won't imagine them as black or Japanese or Canadian.
     
  19. Link the Writer

    Link the Writer Flipping Out For A Good Story. Contributor

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    Well, my other protagonists are Americans (it's set in Alabama) and they're friends with the Canadian. They like pulling jabs at each other in tease as well as making fun of all sorts of stereotypes and crap like that. xD They're buddies. (Actually, the Canadian has been living in America his whole life. His family moved from Canada to America when he was 5, but he still considers himself Canadian.)

    Yeah, like another poster said, PC is for cowards. Write what you want.
     
  20. mammamaia

    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

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    yes, that's what i'm saying!
     
  21. cruciFICTION

    cruciFICTION Contributor Contributor

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    Didn't I basically say that? I know I said that political correctness only exists in media for the sake of capitalism and that you should write what you want. I'm going to pretend that you're talking about me.

    ...

    You're welcome. :p

    EDIT: Damn, I hit 1,000 posts and didn't notice. >=C I wanted to make a big deal out of it since I consider most of my posts to be in some way productive unlike others who have posted more than 1,000 times with nigh-on complete incoherence.
     
  22. Jhunter

    Jhunter Mmm, bacon. Contributor

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    Seriously, write what you want. It is not politically incorrect to write about any of the different people on Earth.

    Nobody is going to be offended by any of the things you just listed.
     
  23. Raki

    Raki New Member

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    ^ This is how I view this topic. To me, PC is nothing more than a guise to hide someone's true feelings/views (in other words, it's an "okay" reason to lie). It's like telling a journalist "no comment" to an important question. I wrote a short story about religion a little less than a year ago in which the protagonist, a man who doesn't know what to believe in, has a dream-like vision of who he suspects/wants to be God. He doesn't know it's God and the figure in his dream never reveals that it is God, the character just thinks it. Among a lot of the responses I received from this particular story were many claiming "God is nothing like this!" and "God wouldn't do this!" and "You're gonna burn in hell!" A little extreme, especially that last one, for sure, but the point is that some folks are going to be offended regardless. I imagine the folks who were offended by my story took little time to realize that it was in fact a fictional story and that the God portrayed in it was nothing more than a figment of the character's imagination.

    I had a professor once in a creative non-fiction workshop class who forbade the students from using the term "black" (after a student did just that) in any of their stories (even in regards to describing their skin color ... "Odds are their skin wasn't truly 'black,'" she would say.). The PC term, she informed us, was "African American," which I see faults with that, too (more than just what if you wrote about a black man from Europe or elsewhere). Something that may or maynot be worth considering is who comes up with these politically correct terms and what makes them politically correct? Who tells us what words should and should not offend us? It's also important to note that while a term may be PC in one place, it may not in another.

    If you're PC, they may be offended that you are PC, and if you're not, they may be offended that you're not. It's entirely up to you whether you want to be PC or not, and whether you want to care if people get offended (if you do care, I fear you may be disappointed with most everything you write). Personally, I'd rather not be PC or care about offending with my writing. IMO, it deflates some really good stories and characters, and it is far better to show the truth of both than to hide them behind some PC terms socially accepted at the time/place of writing.
     
  24. Yoshiko

    Yoshiko Contributor Contributor

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    Excellent question: who does care?

    Isn't writing to please the majority less satisfying than writing something that pleases you? Your imagination, and the produce of it, should be the one place where it is always okay to put your own wishes ahead of what others might (not) want to see.
     
  25. Cacian

    Cacian Banned

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    who does care?
    How about your readers?
    I am sure you do want to be read if you are to get your stories out there?
     

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