Political Threads and Forum Behavior

Reading the posts here I'm reminded of a related but different turn-off I experienced when I first started posting here. That was being constantly told (it felt that way) this isn't allowed here, that isn't allowed here, your arguing is unwelcome (put in a bit more personal and objectionable wording).

I almost didn't stay.

I find it easier to ignore and walk away from discussions I don't find productive than I do being told once too often my comments aren't welcome because they don't fit in.

If I post something rude or belittling, I should be called on it. But posting something that is just an uncomfortable opinion for someone and being told no one wants to know what I think provokes a sense of rejection that can feel undeserved.

 

staggering

 

I recall [MENTION=1349]Cogito[/MENTION] predicting a problem under the new mod policy (in fact, he voiced dissent over that policy). I disagreed with Cog at times when he was a mod and I thought he was sometimes too quick to shut down political threads. I think most of us here aspire to be taken seriously as commentators on the human condition, which carries, as I see it, the seemingly paradoxical requirement that we have definite views about that condition and at the same time that we be open to considering alternative views. Having definite views is easy, but the conundrum of how we search for truth is as old as humankind. So, whatever problems there may be with members interacting with each other and exchanging political views, I do not believe that simply prohibiting it is the answer. We should be better than that.

I, for one, have learned a number of things by reading posts of people with whom I initially disagreed. And when I continue to disagree with them, it is because through our exchanges, I have uncovered something that reinforces my original opinion, and that is a worthwhile exercise. If we are to be a quality writing site, then we have to be able to discuss, calmly and rationally, not only the methods of writing but also the subjects about which we write. [MENTION=3885]Wreybies[/MENTION] mentioned my ill-fated thread on fantasy writing. The escapist aspect of fantasy writing troubles me greatly, not from the perspective of the reader but from the perspective of the writer. At a time when the world is not in a very good place (and I'll just leave it at that for now), we need all the thoughtful commentators we can muster. This means rational engagement, reasoned arguments, real-world focus and careful consideration.

This is not to say that people shouldn't write fantasy (or anything else they want to write), only that one of the many services this forum can provide is a place for reasoned discussion of critical issues for those who wish to pursue those issues in their writing. And there's the rub. How do we keep the discourse the way I think we all want to keep it?

As [MENTION=44992]JJ_Maxx[/MENTION] posted earlier, a good place to start is by respecting the other participants of the discussion. No, they may not be as educated as you are (in fact, one of the truly galling things in engaging in an argument is being opposed by someone whom you know doesn't have the same level of knowledge about the topic that you do), but they will cleave to their opinion until such time as they decide to change it, so why get heated about it? I have actually withdrawn from discussions where someone was being obnoxious about how much they knew (as opposed to the rest of us poor schnooks who weren't nearly as brilliant) or who insisted that there was a single, objective right and wrong when the topic was purely subjective.

There are times when I think the single most intelligent sentence in the English language is "let's just agree to disagree".

[MENTION=55095]jmhoffer[/MENTION] doesn't think infractions should be given over "harmless jokes and sentences being interpreted incorrectly". Well, yes and no. It's amazing how often "harmless jokes" aren't so harmless and that the reason sentences are "interpreted incorrectly" is that they were not clearly stated. A little consideration over how your comment might be perceived goes a long way (I have, on way more than one occasion, either changed a comment before posting it or gone back and immediately edited it because it suddenly struck me that it might be read far differently than I intended.

Now, all that said, I have to add that I honestly don't believe that changing the location of the political forum will do much to alter the tone of political arguments or keep that level of contention from spilling over into other areas. The only thing that it might do is make it easier for those who wish to avoid them to do so. I think the best answer is the current infractions policy combined with a willingness to shut threads down when they start to get out of hand, maybe with the posting of a warning, first. I know that puts more on the shoulders of our already overworked mods, but then that's a discussion for another day.

 

This one I like very much.

Obviously, from looking at some of the debates here, this is not universally true.

I've run into a lot of writers in various places whose intelligence is no greater than average, and the "thought-provoking" is more provoking than thoughtful. And just including the comparison to video game forums is one example of why debates get heated - points can be made without denigrating others, but will they? (note - I am not into video games)

 

@JJ_Max I hope you mean more intelligent on the subject of writing because claiming that writers are more intelligent than gamers sounds pretty unprovable to me. It may hold true on your experience but that does not make it objective fact. For one you are forgetting about us gamers who are also writers (in no particular order of preference or skill).

 

Who are these writers? Everyone's a writer. Maybe focus on the 'creative writer' a little more. Engagement and volume is great - but not so nourishing sometimes. Although I'll contradict myself here - celebrate CW as a genre in its own right, feeling I kind of prefer it to the polished privilege of another 'White Queen.'

The only way to maintain rigour is via the quality of the contributions; occasional rebuttals for the ignorant? I dunno, a middle-brow type site might be more appeaing and/or profitable. Maybe upgrade, lose the C in creative when you get 3 bars, also I think maybe an expanded depression section, is always popular talking about how ill we all are.

This is a great site. I like the grumpy heavies and the fresh faces makes a good mix. The young people writing about dragons is ace. Fascists are hard work, oh and dull loudmouths, eh? Some people arn't so clever but I think that's to be embraced rather than rejected and go intellectual. I appreciate it's an American site and you can't say Christ or tits, but I love you guys. I'm sorry if it's my fault. Can we go back and play?

 

I hope you're not adding to JJ's impression that gamers are not as intelligent as writers or at least gamers who don't write.

I'm not a gamer but my head is not stuffed so far up my ass I think I'm better than everybody else because I write.

And anyway, what about the people who write games and who design them and programme them - surely they're not below us in the food chain...

 

Come on people, relax. I'm not denigrating people who play video games, only that, statistically speaking, posts on any random video game forum will be less thought out and less mature, not to mention the spelling and grammar.

This is a silly thing to argue about. There are always exceptions to facts, as I would hope you would all understand.

 

Video game designers are very different from video game players, just like professional athletes are very different from the spectators.

 

I'm sure they are gamers too

 

I'm sure pro athletes watch sports. Would you compare Kobe to an ESPN fanatic?

 

A person can't be both a designer and a game player? Or an athlete and a spectator? It sounds like you're saying inspiration from video games is below you, which I'm not going to argue over since it's your opinion, but don't think any less of people who do find inspiration from games. Look, I found inspiration looking at a homeless person on the sidewalk... does that make me any less or more of a writer.. not alone no. Inspiration is inspiration.

 

what? seriously?

 

No. Erebh brought up video game designers as a point against JJ's, and I simply wanted to point out that most video game players are not designers. Obviously designers play games, but that doesn't mean most game players design games, right? JJ was talking about video gamers in general, and if we believe that most video gamers are not game designers, then Erebh's initial question wasn't relevant. Am I wrong in this line of reasoning? If so, at which sentence did I go astray?

Also, I never said anything about anyone being below me. That's a huge argument that should be started in another thread, and only after we've hashed out some sort of civil protocol to follow for would be debates, which would be done here

 

Is this just arguing for argument's sake?


The password is Eristic.

 

All I mean to say is that just because A implies b does not mean that b imples A. Please tell me how I'm losing you.

 

I think so

 

I could only discern from your reply that you think people inspired by video games are less intelligent than writers who aren't. I don't think it was a ballpark assumption.

 

I feel like I'm in a Monty Python sketch.

 

at least it made you smile, think I'll go fid the dead parrot sketch on youtube...

 

I don't think there are any video game developers that aren't gamers, and if there are they are very rare. They make games because they enjoy playing them like you write because you enjoy reading. Of course money is involved as well, but you know.


Edit:Missed your newer post explaining what you said better. So disregard this, though I could swear that you meant designers can't be players.

 

It died with fire

 

I came here for an argument...

 

No you didn't

 

See, I made a statement that was misunderstood, most likely because it was unclear, and after the proper questions and clarifications, the point hopefully now makes sense. That's how I would like to see debates run. Thank you R.edreversed for taking the time to read my clarifications.


RHDuke, I'm just pointing out an observation of mine to JJ. What you do with that information is your own business.