1. Man in the Box
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    Man in the Box Active Member

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    Politics in urban fantasy setting

    Discussion in 'Plot Development' started by Man in the Box, Nov 13, 2013.

    Not sure how to phrase it... The basic idea is that the baddies in my story are outerworldly, supernatural creatures who have a political arm in the real world through which they intend to gather enough support to be able to invade the real world and begin their rule, enslaving mankind as a result. However, I'm not sure which way should I take the political views of the bad guys. I'm a left-wing guy, so naturally I tend to view right-wing ideas as the evil, but the truth is that, either way I take it, people are going to criticize me. The obvious evil reference everyone has in politics is nazism, but how to make the villains convince the people in the world that something akin to nazism would be a "good thing" and not make it look like nazi ideas... Would it be feasible for a story that people are so gullible so as to repeat that same historical mistake?

    Another question I have is with regards to using modern political struggles in a fantasy setting. Fantasy fans seem to love political intrigue, but when you're dealing with a modern setting, you run a risk of being viewed as a supporter of either side, depending on where you take the story. I'd like to keep the story as neutral as possible, but I fear it might not be the best course of action. What to do, then? Should I trust my readers will leave their prejudice aside?
     
  2. A.M.P.
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    A.M.P. People Buy My Books for the Bio Photo Supporter Contributor

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    Actually, in modern politics, white-supremest views are the most insignificant kind.
    There are bigger threats to a politicians ideals than that as Naziism is very unlikely to be taken seriously by any significant amount of the public.

    Readers will never leave their prejudice aside as they can only judge and relate to your characters by what they, the reader, knows about the world.
    Hence relate.

    So, the premise is believable, completely actually, as long as it's disguised as something else.
    Two things to remember, politicians have their own agenda that is NOT in the best interest of the country and the public will be fed information that easily sets it to a different light with the right wording as their understanding of what is going is severely limited. Therefore, the public will relate to it as best they can with the information given and most likely make short sighted and misinformed decisions.

    To answer your last thing, whether your left or right, red or blue, conservative or liberal, the readers who think about what is going on and have a certain knowledge of the matter WILL notice it if its somewhat centric or similar to the points that the MC champions or goes against.

    The only thing that should really worry you is if your MC will be so right/left or whatever that he completely turns off the opposite minded reader.
    Trick here is to make the MC compelling and keep the reader interested in how, someone they despite, think.
     
  3. EdFromNY
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    EdFromNY Hope to improve with age Supporter Contributor

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    I would agree that most people in the mainstream would react negatively to anything labeled "Nazism" or "fascist", and this is reflected by the frequency with which those terms are applied to disliked political figures, usually incorrectly. But your question is a good one. The first thing would be to change the vocabulary, make it as distant from historical Nazism as possible. What did the Nazis advocate? Restoring lost national prestige, restoring lost national power, rearming to enable more effective self defense, rigorous steps to restore the economy (don't forget, the Nazis originally organized in the 1920s, when Germany was being socked with horrendous war reparations from the First World War, but they only gained power in the wake of the great depression). They also scapegoated a group nobody liked to begin with (in Germany, it was the Jews; in modern USA, it's Spanish-speaking immigrants).

    Not only would it be feasible in fiction, it would be feasible in real life. That's one reason why Holocaust remembrances are so important. It's easy to forget.

    Good luck.
     
  4. Burlbird
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    Burlbird Contributing Member Contributor

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    You can always have the demonic bastards manipulate BOTH wings of the political spectrum... Or, you could go into a complete farce, by having them control the mild political center - militant neo-nazis and extreme anarchists could eventually join forces to fight them! :)

    The actual ideology is not relevant to the alien invaders, is it? Their ultimate goal is world domination - from the point of view of most of the world, it matters very little which party holds US Senate, for example. Slightly left or slightly right - it comes down to the same thing. So a transdimensional alien invasion, as I see it, would use as their harbinger any political option that is popular enough. In one country they'd use liberal socialists, in the other: nationalists, or demochristians, or religious zealots, or yogi flyers...As long as they can get hold of popular support... Like CIA in Latin America :)
     
  5. Jack Asher
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    Jack Asher Wildly experimental Contributor

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    Easy solution: Terrorism.

    Even after revelations about the draconian intelligence gathering of the NSA a plurality of Americans support it's invasive process. While there are hypocrits, like Snowden, who didn't seem to mind when it was their party in power invading peoples privacy; it has been a historically conservative position that the Military Industrial Complex can never be too big. Too invasive. Too controlling.

    All your extra-dimensional race need do is offer a boogeyman (the go-to here is a Muslim) and people will beg for more "security", which they can offer. At a cost.

    It's worth pointing out as a related topic, you are far, far more likely to perish in a gun crime then a terrorist attack. Yet we have gone to terrifying lengths to prevent terrorism, while we cannot even pass legislation supported by a plurality of Americans limiting gun purchases.

    So your visitors could offer a threat which every American must be armed, crazy gun fights ensue, ?, profit.
     
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  6. Steinbeck101
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    Steinbeck101 Member

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    Agreed
     
  7. Simpson17866
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    Simpson17866 Contributing Member Contributor

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    Basically, the aliens need multiple front organizations that everybody - even "members" outside the inner circles - thinks are opposed to each other. That way, they can

    1) pit their least capable minions against each other to keep up the appearances that motivate the most useful, as a competition between teams is more productive than either a single group or a competition between individuals, and

    2) if anybody tries to change sides, then he will still be under the control of the same people, but he will be more motivated in his "new" side because he falsely believes that his personal choices are changing something.
     
  8. 33percent
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    33percent Member

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    You say you're a left wing guy I hate to say it but Nazi's by definition ' National Socialist German Workers' Party' they have the same ideals and beliefs as the left does Nationalism. A prime example is you're living in one today where our constitution is being shredded. You view right wing type of people are evil? in what way so?
     
  9. Cogito
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    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    The quickest way to discredit yourself on the Internet is to equate something to Naziism, or a person to Hitler.
     
  10. Man in the Box
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    Man in the Box Active Member

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    No idea what he means. The Nazis actually chased and killed a large amount of communists (who are, of course, left-wingers) since their rise into power, which is why the Western world, which was wary of communists (and left-wingers in general), let Hitler run loose for so long.
     
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  11. Burlbird
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    Burlbird Contributing Member Contributor

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    @Man in the Box yeah, he also took care of the little problem called "Ashkenazi" - that may be the basic ideal Hitler shared with Stalin... ;)
     
  12. DPVP
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    DPVP Active Member

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    I think no matter what some of your personal politics and beliefs will slip into a distopian group. I think looking at the difference in the V for Vendetta books vs the movie is a good example. i am shore what i write is guilty as well.

    as for who they have as a front, why not a populist movement? or maybe multiple.
     
  13. Cogito
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    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    In the earliest days of the World Wide Web and NNTP newsgroups, there used to be the original FAQ. One of it's first pieces of advice was that the quickest way to lose an argument was to invoke Hitler or Nazis. That's because the newsgroups were flooded with nut jobs frothing at the mouth and ranting at whomever would listen.

    Unlike the present day, of course.
     
  14. Jack Asher
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    Jack Asher Wildly experimental Contributor

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    The Godwin's Law clock hit 1.
     
  15. Oswiecenie
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    Oswiecenie Active Member

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    Rubbish. Stalin condemned antisemitism and cherished Jewish writers. He supplied arms to the Zionist state via Czechoslovakia and when he installed a communist puppet regime in Poland, he stuffed it almost exclusively with Jews. Most of his henchmen were Jews as well. If anything, he was a philosemite.
     
  16. Burlbird
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    Burlbird Contributing Member Contributor

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    @Oswiecenie you missed the bluish guy at the end of thwle post ;)
     
  17. Burlbird
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    Burlbird Contributing Member Contributor

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    ...double post -erase me please :)6*
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2014

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