Poll - do you read author's notes or prolouges?

Discussion in 'General Writing' started by AspiringNovelist, Jul 23, 2015.

?

I ______ read the Author's Note or Prolouge

Poll closed Aug 22, 2015.
  1. Always

    32.6%
  2. Usually

    41.9%
  3. Rarely

    23.3%
  4. Never

    2.3%
  1. Commandante Lemming

    Commandante Lemming Contributor Contributor

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    Author's Notes no. Prologue always. Maybe this is weird of me but I generally assume that if someone includes a Prologue as part of the story, I should read it rather than insulting their authorial choice. It's no different than skipping Chapter 1.

    NOTE: I'm the resident radical with regard to prologues and flashbacks, so never mind me - and throw me in the stockades with the other heretics if necessary :superlaugh:
     
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  2. Wreybies

    Wreybies Thrice Retired Supporter Contributor

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    Wow. Lot's of investment in reading or not reading these things.

    Here's my 2p...

    I don't read a prologue. I just don't. There's a red flag that goes up for me when I see that thing that tells me that this is starting off on the wrong foot. Judge me how you like, when I'm in the bookstore or on Amazon, it's my money. I know it's part of your baby and it feels like I'm saying, "Your baby is soooo cute... except for that hideous nose. WTF happened there? Yeah, don't bring that thing to my house." I know you're emotionally invested in every last bit of what you wrote, I know it, but again, it's my money. There's no prettier way for me to say it. No one needs to understand my reasoning because I'm not asking anyone else to use it. I also have a weird thing about the word "the" being the first word in a novel. Yeah. The. And, no, I'm not explaining that to you either. I just don't like it. Points immediately shave off and I couldn't be paid to care what you think of that, because again, I have zero expectation that anyone else in the world would use that as a meter by which to measure. My money, that I'm spending, on what I want, and not spending on what I don't want. And a prologue is very likely to get me to put the book back on the shelf.

    As for authors notes.... Um... I can't really remember the last time I came across a novel that had them. Yes, I see your fingers flying to the keyboard to list a bunch of novels that have them. I don't care. I'm only talking about my own personal reading experience. So, anyway, I don't really have an opinion on that simply because it's not something I can remember dealing with. If we count an appendix or a glossary of terms at the back of your novel as part of the "author's notes paradigm", then no, I don't read that either. If I need to read your glossary in order to follow along in your fiction novel, then I've very probably stopped reading your novel long before I ever came to know there's a glossary of terms in the back. Poor show.
     
  3. Commandante Lemming

    Commandante Lemming Contributor Contributor

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    I can actually respect that (even if it mean's you'll never read my book) but my question would be your thoughts on skipping the prologue if you purchased a book that included one - as a reader I don't understand choosing to skip a story element. That's like fast-forwarding through the beginning of a movie.
     
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  4. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

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    @Wreybies that's a valid approach, in my view. Weird how some people think you've done the author a disservice or insulted them by not reading their prologue. If I have the book, I've already done the author a service by buying it. If I don't want to read their prologue, I won't read it.

    Also, it's nothing like skipping Chapter 1, unless the author was just completely arbitrary in labeling what should have been Chapter 1 as a prologue. Usually, there are reasons the author chose to call it a prologue, and those reasons often argue against wasting your time with it.
     
  5. Wreybies

    Wreybies Thrice Retired Supporter Contributor

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    Because your prologue (as opposed to Chapter 1, which is paradigmatically different) has already made me feel - rightly or wrongly - that you took the easy way out as regards making something clear within the tell of the story. It's like me making you a nice Thai curry, but I didn't know what to do with the curry paste, but I know it's totally needed for the meal to be complete, so I served it to you on the side in a pretty little dish.

    Sorry. Not eating that.

    (btw, do not EVER eat raw Thai curry paste by itself. You will regret it.) :blech:

    Yeah. For me it goes like this:

    Both my parents are accountants. Mom and dad are both CPA's and mom has also worked as a financial consultant. That's the environment in which I was raised. Very early on mom made sure that my brother and I understand that commercials and adverts are for suckers and that anyone trying to tell us what we want or should want is immediately suspect. They don't know us so how in the world can they know what we want or need? She taught us to know ourselves as consumers and to care only about what actually makes us happy, no matter what anyone else is doing/wanting/ saying. When it comes to me as a reading consumer, I know what I want and what I don't want. A number of posts already in this thread, as you point out, have manifested a commonly extolled feeling of umbrage and disrespect at the idea that some part of a work would be skipped. I could hear the rattle of strings of pearls being clutched to scandalized necks. "You... you would skip my prologue? Fetchez la vache!! STONE ZEE INFIDEL!!!" *shrug* When I am reaching for my wallet, you are dealing with a very different person that who I am when I'm in the Workshop. When I am a consumer, I am unapologetically selfish.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2015
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  6. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

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    This comment wins the thread.
     
  7. peachalulu

    peachalulu Member Reviewer Contributor

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    Actually if you play the odds - depending on what stories you read some prologues aren't really beginnings, they're teasers or set decoration. Sometimes the author gets it right. I just read a book last night - they were having their annual booksale the other day at my library so I made off with a big haul - and the book started with a prologue. It was a YA book called the Compound. It was quite good - a page turner. I didn't skip the prologue because it started with a good sentence - T.S. Elliot got it wrong - and the action of how they fled into their bomb shelter. Relevant information. The bulk of the book takes place years later so the prologue was used to avoid a huge flashback. Their were of course flashbacks as the writer was clever enough not to reveal everything that happened in the prologue but for me it could have easily have been Chapter 1. I think the only reason it was a prologue was to make a distinction between then and now.
     
  8. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    Yep, and that's the only reason for the one prologue (edited to clarify: the only reason to call it a prologue) that I can ever think of that works, the one in Rumer Godden's In This House of Brede. In the prologue her main character is winding up her highly successful corporate life in preparation for becoming a nun. In Chapter 1 she's been a nun for several years and has adjusted to the life. The prologue isn't backstory, it's absolutely story. It's not one of those little teaser snapshots, it's a proper chapter with a lot of interaction, a lot of characters, a lot of events, and good story flow.
     
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  9. shadowwalker

    shadowwalker Contributor Contributor

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    I don't care if people don't read prologues - they can skip the last chapter for all I care. What bugs me is people who cherry-pick the agents/editors who are too stubborn to read them and use those as a reason to tell authors not to write them - or claim those few mean "most".

    Balderdash.
     
  10. Nicoel

    Nicoel Senior Member

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    Honestly, it depends on the kind of mood I am in. Almost every time I open up a book and I see that it has a prologue, I'll skip it. I don't want to be invested in characters that I'm not going to follow, and prologues are usually slow and boring to me.

    However, if I enjoyed the story, I'll probably go back and read the prologue because I want more. Also, because I want that extra little insight the prologue gives. I fully expect the story to stand on it's own without the prologues information, and going back to read the prologue just flicks on another interesting lens to look at the plot.

    It's kind of like the old batman movie. I'd rather watch the movie with adult batman, and then afterwards watch the "prologue" where his parents die and he falls down a well where there's a bunch of bats. (Does anyone know which movie that is? That's THE batman movie to me and I can't find it). It's that "oooh!" moment that I like.

    I only read authors notes if it's historical. I want to know what was real and what wasn't.
     
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  11. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

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    You don't know if it is balderdash or not. It may be, however the comment above that most agents hate prologues came from an established agent at a long-standing literary agency. I suspect her knowledge of what agents generally like or dislike far exceeds your own. Though we don't have a scientific study on the topic that I'm aware of, her statement has a lot more weight than anything you or I have to say based on personal experience. If you have evidence from equally experience individuals in the profession that most agents like prologues, feel free to share it. Otherwise, you're posting a lot of hot air.
     
  12. Kingtype

    Kingtype Banned Contributor

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    Right under your nose!
    LOL

    Man I gotta say I never gave prologues a second a thought, some books had them and some didn't.

    Was never a big deal XD

    I don't use them or at least haven't used one yet but never the less I never found them any them weird or unattractive.

    But they are a little useless, I suppose?
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2015
  13. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    The following is no doubt obvious, but I felt the urge to state it flatly:

    - Many people dislike backstory.
    - Prologues are very, very often backstory.
    - Therefore many people are wary of prologues.

    My issue with prologues is not based in what the thing is called; I don't care if the author chooses to call their chapters "prologue" or "episodes" or "vignettes" or whatever. My issue is that "prologue" often, not always, functions as a warning label for "backstory here!"
     
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  14. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    Why? Shouldn't story elements be introduced in the best way that works in the story? It would seem to me you might have too narrow an idea of the variety of prologue options.

    If the prologue is an expository info dump, chances are it wasn't written well and the information might be better integrated into the story. But a prologue that occurs years or decades before the story begins often works well to reveal something about the characters or setting.
     
  15. Commandante Lemming

    Commandante Lemming Contributor Contributor

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    That's interesting in that it makes the case that the prologue label is a signifier of non-importance - when at least in my case it's a label of extra importance. My prologue takes place 19 years before the main action but it gets referenced constantly in the rest of the book - more so than any other single passage of text...by a factor of ten. Hence, for that book, that's why I as the author would be a bit put off by the idea of skipping the prologue - because my entire story slowly decodes what happens in the prologue. If you skip it, you're going to miss a huge chunk of the plot and symbolism, because the entire story is designed to revolve around it - and I can't label it Chapter 1 because it isn't the proper beginning of the story...it's a prologue.

    Now, if you don't like flashback prologues, I can understand why you would avoid them and not buy books that include them. But to skip one in a book you've chosen to read puts you, as a reader, out of the loop on major details and hurts your reading experience. (assuming you're dealing with a prologue that's been properly executed rather than thrown together. Yes, people do bad prologues, but the face that people do bad prologues doesn't mean that nobody should do them ever).

    Again - I'm not saying you're not allowed to dislike or avoid prologues - more power to you. But when they are included, they are included for a reason, and that reason is to help you as a reader. I just don't see why you can skip the prologue any more than you can skip the climax - either way you're excluding a hyper-important moment in the story (again, assuming said prologue is executed well).
     
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  16. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

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    I suppose that raises the issue of whether, if you have a really effective and necessary prologue, you should't just call it Chapter 1 anyway. The reasoning being this: a certain percentage of readers will skip it. Yes, maybe they're out of the loop when reading the book, and they get a poorer reading experience because of it and its their own fault. The practical implication for the author, however, may be that the person blogs about how they didn't like the book, or they tell friends it wasn't very good, or they post a bad review on Amazon. Again, all their own fault because they skipped the prologue, and had they not done so it would have salvaged the reading experience, but that's little comfort for the author, on whom the reader's negative perception of the book and willing to tell friends or the internet about it can be much more significant than the readers own lost few hours in reading the book and not getting it.
     
  17. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    See, my view is that if it's the beginning of the book, it's the beginning of the story. Why isn't it the beginning of the story?
     
  18. Commandante Lemming

    Commandante Lemming Contributor Contributor

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    Yeah I get the reasoning - but again if it takes place 19 years before the main action in doesn't include the protagonist - calling it Chapter One is cheating the reader, because Chapter One has certain stipulations to what you have to do, and those stipulations aren't met by most prologues.

    Random observation - as a reader who does read prologues, I come at it with an opposite set of assumptions. I always assume that whatever happens in the prologue is one of the two or three most important things that's going to happen in the book - and I'll feel cheated if you force me to sit through a flashback prologue and THEN don't make that prologue highly integral to everything that happens later.
     
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  19. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    To take a different approach here, and because I have a one paragraph prologue I love, instead of looking at what doesn't work I looked around for suggestions about what does work in a prologue.

    A prologue will help our story when
    The article gives a summary of why prologues don't work, what to watch out for if you include one, and how to assess a prologue if you've written or are planning to write one.

    This one was mostly why not, but there was a bit of why to:
    Pros and Cons of Prologue
    Here's one I found myself not agreeing with one of the main premises:
    The Prologue When to Use One, How to Write One
    This would be the prologue I would not use. To me it's just backstory one should be able to incorporate into the story. And I don't consider 'resorting to flashbacks' the best way to look at flashbacks either.

    Of course again, I am influenced by my own choices. I have flashbacks but I'm not 'resorting' to them, the flashbacks are part of the story, they aren't giving the readers information they need, rather I'm telling two parallel stories from different timelines that will eventually merge.

    The other reason this blogger gives for including a prologue is why I say the prologue is part of the story. If it isn't, I can see why people skip them.
    The reason I crossed out those parts is, it was an example I think clouded the message. The point is, the prologue should be just as interesting and hook the reader as much as any chapter one would. The prologue needs to be interesting, it needs draw the reader in. You've just made it the opening, that means it needs to be all or part of that first hook.

    For my one paragraph prologue, I'll probably include it like one would include a quotation, that is without a title. It's clear it's not a chapter so calling it chapter one is out, and I'd hate someone to put my manuscript down because of seeing the word, 'prologue'.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2015
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  20. Commandante Lemming

    Commandante Lemming Contributor Contributor

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    Well there it's more a semantic debate about what the beginning of the story is. If you definite the beginning of the story as a relevant piece of action that launches the whole thing, then a prologue is the beginning of the story. I define the beginning of the story as the moment you meet your protagonist. Only when those two points are separate is when I'd use a prologue - not every story needs one, to be sure.
     
  21. Daemon Wolf

    Daemon Wolf Senior Member

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    It's sad to se the poll. I always read them.
     
  22. Void

    Void Senior Member

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    Hmm, while I still find the opposition to prologues rather baffling, it seems clear that this is a real phenomenon and it would be unwise to ignore it. As such, this thread has caused me to reflect upon my own prologue and reassess its necessity, and I'm thinking I might scrape it. Not just because because there are people who will skip it simply for having the word Prologue written above it, but I've had some concerns that people may be more put off by actually reading the prologue for quite some time.
    Its purpose is largely expositional of the world building variety, retelling the events that have taken place ~800 years ago, but due to the nature of the story it is presented as an excerpt from a holy book, and I have been somewhat concerned from the very beginning that the gimmicky writing style may lead people to believe the entire book will be written that way.

    Either way, I think I'll incorporate these aspects into the first few chapters, so it's a good thing I'm in the process of rewriting the first few chapters, because otherwise this change would be rather demoralising.

    So I thank the people in this thread who have offered opinions I wasn't aware even existed to any extent.
     
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  23. shadowwalker

    shadowwalker Contributor Contributor

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    Again - one agent says most. What if another 'established agent at a long-standing literary agent' says balderdash? Who to believe? And please note, I'm not making any ridiculous claims about "most" - I'm asking you to prove your claim to that word.

    This whole "Don't write prologues!" is just another in a long line of "DON'T DO THIS" set of opinions that get blown into RULES - like don't use adverbs, don't use anything but said, don't start a story with the character waking up, don't describe someone using a mirror - good grief. No, don't write a prologue that's an infodump - not because it's a prologue but because infodumps are bad. And a badly written prologue indicates a badly written story - but merely having a prologue does not.

    Like I said, if you don't like them, don't read, don't write them. But don't tell folks it's BAD BAD BAD to have them just because an unproven number of agents don't like them. There are also agents who just want good writing. Amazing, that...

    But this is just another go-around in a never ending argument... Let's just put them all in a separate forum and sticky it. Save time and aggravation.
     
  24. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

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    Nothing new to add or even any evidence you've been reading the posts in the thread. This does not astonish me. At least some in the thread are actually carrying on a discussion. If you don't want "aggravation," try a new approach.
     
  25. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    That's why I like to look at the reasons underlying said 'rule'. If you just hear the rule, what have you learned? If you understand the underlying premises the rule is based on, then you have learned something.
     
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