Posting rough drafts for critique?

Discussion in 'Revision and Editing' started by Aaron DC, Jul 16, 2015.

  1. Aaron DC

    Aaron DC Contributor Contributor

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    Sincerely: can you give me an example?
     
  2. peachalulu

    peachalulu Member Reviewer Contributor

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    For me the raw stuff is distracting. The stuff that reads like it was the writer's first effort and never re-read or spellchecked. Those posted pieces don't really help the writer and usually just piss-off a critiquer. The critiquer looks and thinks - if you can't even be bothered to use spellcheck or reread what you've written how invested/serious are you? Or maybe you just want an editor like bad singers want - autotune.

    Now, I don't mean skill level. And this may sound strange but I'm more forgiving of an experienced author with good writing skills making SPAG errors than a newbie. Cause with the experienced writer you feel it's a genuine flub. He overlooked it. But with a newbie because there is problem after problem you feel like he didn't even make an effort to edit things he could catch. Suddenly the critique becomes a mishmash of trying to explain big issues like you're telling and oh, p.s. you've misspelled six words, dropped quotes, your commas are in the wrong place etc. A sea of red.

    I've been guilty of posting a piece with a warning - rough draft. I don't think I've ever said this is crap mainly because I usually never think anything is crap until some time has passed. Really, I don't get the whole this is crap thing. Why show it to people if you truly believe it's that bad? My warning was to push the critique a certain way - can I handle this genre?

    I think when people say it's crap they're doing two things - protecting themselves, and pushing the critique a certain way. When someone says, I look fat in this dress - they want people to argue and tell them - no, you don't. So by saying it's crap the writer has a certain guarantee that nobody will agree with them - that the critiquers will dig hard to find a compliment to alleviate that statement.

    Some of it though, can be false modesty. Some of it is just lack of faith in themselves.

    I'm for anyone posting anything they want. But I think if the writer wants to improve their writing lower their excitement on the piece and read it over three or four times ( once aloud ) before posting.
     
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  3. Nicoel

    Nicoel Senior Member

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    After reading the thread I went back and looked at my last post in the workshop. Oops.

    I did look over it for egregious spelling and grammar mistakes, but I didn't do a careful nit pick of an edit before I posted it. I would consider it a rough draft.

    I didn't post it hoping people would polish it for word choices etc., and I feel like that's what you're complaining about here. I posted it because I have very little faith in myself, and I was wondering if I actually conveyed that my characters were pissed at each other. I was hoping that it was actual believable dialogue. I've been in and seen quite a few arguments in my day, but I don't write them. If there was some outstanding problem in the dialogue, I was hoping someone would point it out.

    (I was actually quite surprised two people said it was written well. That made me feel a little better about it)

    Does that give a little insight as to why some people post rough drafts?
     
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  4. Lewdog

    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

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    From what I've seen people are continuing to argue for nothing, the OP's question has been answered.

    People want to have their rough drafts critiqued because they want to see how it flows with its plots and character development, and to see if the piece even makes sense. They may also have a rough draft critiqued because they are just not good at English period and plan on later having someone else do the editing if the piece is even worth doing so.


    Fin
     
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  5. Okon

    Okon Contributor Contributor

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    I find those 'rough draft' prefaces a little off-putting. It feels like a bastion for his/her ego, and makes me expect an argument against criticism. However, I'll still critique based on the attitude of the writer and how cleaned up the work actually is.
     
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  6. Aaron DC

    Aaron DC Contributor Contributor

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    It does, yes. Thank you for your honesty and openness. It's not always easy to empathise with people via the Internet and despite my question delivery, I appreciate you being prepared to help me understand.

    I don't get the impression from your last workshop post that you "just threw this together and wonder what people think", so to clarify, it's not the sort of thing that makes me go, "Huh?". :D
     
  7. Aaron DC

    Aaron DC Contributor Contributor

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    Thank you to the responders and apologies to the people I put off with my OP delivery. I do tend to wear my heart on my post's sleeves.

    I've learnt a valuable lesson: to preface my workshop pieces with a specific request for the sort of (critique) help I am looking for. I realise it will be ignored, often, but at least I will have tried.
     
  8. thirdwind

    thirdwind Member Contest Administrator Reviewer Contributor

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    Yes. This. If you can't be bothered to post something you've actually put some effort into, why should I bother putting effort into my critique?
     
  9. peachalulu

    peachalulu Member Reviewer Contributor

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    I actually got into a bit of an argument with a writer on another site because she kept wanting me to read the work and stop making so many corrections on it. She actually said stop nit picking and tell me what you think of the story.
    I couldn't seem to get it across to her that for me the story is the arrangement of words and punctuation and when you foul it up there is no story. There's only idea.
     
  10. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    Yes yes yes. Writing is more than just a story idea. If the presentation of the idea is incoherent, there isn't any point puttering around with 'the idea' itself. You won't ever be a writer until you can write coherently. That means learning grammar, punctuation, sentence structure and spelling. Once you've achieved that basic standard (which you should have learned by the time you leave high school) THEN you can start working harder on your ideas and learning advanced writerly tricks to make your story interesting and memorable.

    Ignoring bad writing and concentrating on the basic idea the writer wants to convey is like listening to a pianist who keeps hitting all the wrong notes. They're happily tweedling away, flubbing passages, getting the timing all wrong—and then they say: "Oh forget all the mistakes—what I want to know is did you like the FEELING of the piece?" Aargh. No, I didn't. Sorry. I was too busy cringing and looking for the exit.
     
  11. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    That's one thing that is easier in an in-person critique group, we mark grammar/spelling/typos on the page, but we spend our time talking on broader issues.

    I think it depends, if the grammar and/or spelling are so bad, then that may be what the writer needs to work on the most. I have a hard time critiquing some of our English-as-a-second-language forum members because I can't get past the translation errors.

    I admire they are becoming fluent, and I want to help them, but I don't have the patience because, what sounds like the trouble you are having, it's just too distracting.
     
  12. shadowwalker

    shadowwalker Contributor Contributor

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    I agree that can be a problem (not just ESL folks either). Even though I have, in the past, agreed to look at rough drafts, I have sent them back if the spelling and basic grammar hadn't been looked at first. I mean, there's "rough draft" and there's "written on a napkin".
     
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  13. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    The only scenario where this sense to me if the author has a major, major problem with editing their work, so that getting it to a decent edit level would cost them orders of magnitude more time than the reviewer would spend reviewing it.

    For example, if they otherwise have a good grasp on language but due to some learning disability, their spelling skill is nonexistent and they'd have to spend ten hours on every page, looking up half the words in the dictionary.

    However, that wouldn't really be a "rough draft" scenario. The author would presumably have put in a normal or greater-than-normal amount of time checking their piece, they just would have refrained from spending many times normal. And I would expect a brief explanation, so that I'd know not to waste my time pointing out spelling errors.
     

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