1. FutureAuthor
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    FutureAuthor New Member

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    Prince/Princess/King/Queen work?

    Discussion in 'Research' started by FutureAuthor, Aug 5, 2016.

    If i have a king and he has a Queen and they son and daughter are the prince and princess, what happens when the prince finds a girlfriend?
    does she become the princess or does his sister stay the princes or are they both the princess? how does that work?

    And what if the king dies and the prince becomes the new king, does his girlfriend becomes the new Queen or does his mother stay Queen? lol

    If anyone can explain to me how does any of this wrk that would really help me out
     
  2. Shadowfax
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    Shadowfax Contributing Member Contributor

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    The sons of a king are all princes, the daughters all princesses. Never changes. So, we currently have Prince Charles, Prince Andrew, Prince Edward (sons of the Queen), Prince William, Prince Henry (sons of the heir to the throne, Prince Charles), Prince George (son of the heir to the heir to the throne, Prince William) and Prince Philip (consort to the Queen, and created Prince by her decree - although he was born Prince Philip of Greece and Denmark[!], he abandoned those titles upon his marriage). We also have a raft of princesses, most interestingly the Princesses Beatrice and Eugenie, daughters of Prince Andrew, who is currently 6th in line of succession. I'm not sure how far away from the line of succession you have to get before your children aren't princes and princesses - so my list is not exhaustive!

    But, Prince Charles only became Prince of Wales in 1958, when he was also created Earl of Chester. He was already Duke of Cornwall (traditionally held by the oldest son of the monarch), since 1952 - the date his grandfather died and his mother succeeded as Queen.

    When a Prince gets a girl-friend, she remains plain old Lady Diana Spencer (she was daughter to a Viscount) until such time as she is ennobled (Anne Boleyn was granted the Marquessate of Pembroke in 1532, the year before her marriage to Henry VIII - perhaps as "buttering-up") herself, or they are married, when she would become princess in her husband's right.

    When a king dies, the oldest son becomes king, and his wife becomes queen; the dead king's widow becomes queen mother (a role that Queen Elizabeth II's mother fulfilled from 1952 to 2002; so we had the bizarre situation of Queen Elizabeth II on the throne, and Queen Elizabeth the queen mother...)
     
  3. Sapphire at Dawn
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    Sapphire at Dawn Member

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    I have a feeling that Beatrice and Eugine shouldn't technically be referred to as princesses as they are not descendants of the eldest male. I can't remember where I read that, so I could well be wrong. But historically (and I'm talking medieval here) it was only the children of the eldest male that would be known as princes and princesses. Take Edward III. It was only the Black Princes' children who were princes, the rest weren't. Take the modern royal family and neither Princess Anne's children nor Prince Edward's children are princes or princesses (Anne's don't have titles - I believe she asked for this, and Edward has Lady Louise and a son who is Vicount something).

    The girlfriend would stay as she was until she was married. Then she would have the title as right of being his wife, hence Kate Middleton became the Duchess of Cambridge after her marriage, not before.
     
  4. Shadowfax
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    Shadowfax Contributing Member Contributor

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    princess

    the daughter of a monarch.
    • a close female relative of a monarch, especially a granddaughter.
    • the wife or widow of a prince.
    I think that, historically, the title prince may well have been more restricted in use...although it may have been splashed around more (who of us was around to see?!). Henry VIII was referred to as Prince Henry even while his older brother was around, although none of Edward III's children was referred to as a prince, except for Edward, the Black Prince.

    Certainly, Henry VIII was the first English king to be Your Majesty; prior to that, they had merely been Your Grace! So, it's possible that a proliferation of titles dates from then.
     
  5. Sapphire at Dawn
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    Sapphire at Dawn Member

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    I stand corrected. I honestly have no recollection of where I heard/read that they shouldn't be referred to as princesses. It may have even been someone's opinion and they were trying to discredit them. They're not hugely popular, those two.
     
  6. BayView
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    BayView Contributing Member Contributor

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    There was a thing with Diana where she wasn't supposed to be called Princess Diana, but was Lady Diana, Princess of Wales. I'm not really sure what the rationale was on that, but it seems to be echoed in the Kate Middleton situation, where she isn't a princess just because she married a prince - she's a duchess because the Queen made her a duchess.

    But, OP - this is going to vary at least somewhat depending on the country after which you're modelling your system of royalty. There are more than just the British crowd, after all, and if you're looking historical, there would have been even more. Also, things can change quickly - just in the last decade it's changed so that the oldest child, male or female inherits the British monarchy, and so that all the children of the oldest child get to be Prince/Princess and called Royal Highness.

    In general, though? "Girlfriend" isn't going to mean much in terms of titles or official roles.
     
  7. Sal Boxford
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    Sal Boxford Active Member

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    I think Diana was "Princess Diana" after she married Charles. Wasn't the change to "Diana, Princess of Wales" a result of the divorce? The Duchess of York became "Sarah, Duchess of York" following her divorce from Prince Andrew. Neither she or wife ever took the title "princess" - Sophie is Countess of Wessex.

    Princess Michael of Kent - what's her deal? She's miles from the throne.

    But, yes, the short answer is:
     
  8. Shadowfax
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    Shadowfax Contributing Member Contributor

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    1/ That was because she was now divorced from Prince Charles; as such, she was no longer Her Royal Highness, Princess of Wales, merely Lady Diana, Princess...
    She retained her place in the pecking order, because she was mother to the heir to the heir.

    2/ It appears that only the heir gets to call his wife "Princess"; Kate Middleton became a duchess NOT because the Queen made her one, but because the Queen created her son Duke of Cambridge as a wedding present, and his wife became "Duchess".

    The Queen had issued new letters patent, dated 31 December 2012, enabling all children of the eldest son, as opposed to only the eldest son, of the Prince of Wales to enjoy the princely title and style of Royal Highness
     
  9. Shadowfax
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    Shadowfax Contributing Member Contributor

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    She's Princess by virtue of her marriage to Prince Michael of Kent, grandson to George V, son to the third son.

    She became, and remains, Her Royal Highness Princess Michael of Kent (not Princess Marie Christine, since she is not a princess in her own right, but only by right of marriage).

    Prince Michael forfeited his position in the line of succession by marrying a Catholic...and a divorcee! However, he's been reinstated to the line of succession on 26 March 2015 with the successful passing of the Succession to the Crown Act 2013 and is now 45th in line.
     
  10. BayView
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    BayView Contributing Member Contributor

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    It's just Wikipedia, but it's consistent with what I read at the time... " Often used by the public and media, the style "Princess Diana" is incorrect. With rare exceptions by permission of the Sovereign (such as Princess Alice, Duchess of Gloucester), only women born to the title (such as The Princess Anne) may use it before their given names. After her divorce in 1996, Diana was officially styled Diana, Princess of Wales, having lost the prefix "HRH"."

    So she was never Princess Diana, and all she lost in the divorce was "HRH"
     
  11. Sal Boxford
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    Sal Boxford Active Member

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    @Shadowfax Are you googling this or do you just a know a ton of stuff about the monarchy and related legislation?

    @BayView An entire nation stands corrected. I had no idea she was never really Princess Di.
     
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  12. Shadowfax
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    Shadowfax Contributing Member Contributor

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    Guilty! (Don't tell my boss!)
     

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