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  1. Duchess-Yukine-Suoh
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    Duchess-Yukine-Suoh Girl #21 Contributor

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    Pro-life or just Pro-birth?

    Discussion in 'Debate Room' started by Duchess-Yukine-Suoh, Jul 19, 2014.

    [​IMG]
    ^I felt that this was worth sharing. Thoughts?
     
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  2. thirdwind
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    thirdwind Contributing Member Contest Administrator Reviewer Contributor

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    I agree with that quote. Pro-lifers never seem to be address the issues a child might face later in life. They care for the unborn but not for the born (to paraphrase George Carlin).
     
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  3. stevesh
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    stevesh Banned Contributor

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    There's no way to know beforehand what sort of 'issues' a child might face later in life. There is every way to know that an aborted fetus will not face any sort of life, period. Seems best to err on the side of finding out.

    (Sadly, one has to establish his position on issues like this to avoid one's opinion being summarily dismissed based on an erroneous assumption, so I'll offer that I'm pro-choice on the subject of abortion.)
     
  4. Garball
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    Garball Sometimes nothing can be a real cool hand. Supporter Contributor

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    The entire quote is based on the assumption that a pro-lifer does not want "any tax money to go there," or does not care about the welfare of the child after birth. I'm not up to snuff on the names of logical fallacies, but that's one right there.

    If given only the options of yes or no, and taking this quote exactly how it is written, I would say I have to disagree. Do I think there is some truth in the statement? Yes.
     
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  5. stevesh
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    stevesh Banned Contributor

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    Yup. The idea that aborted children, if carried to term, would, by definition, need to be supported by tax dollars, is elitist at best.
     
  6. Aled James Taylor
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    Aled James Taylor Contributing Member Contributor

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    The original statement seems to be making a general statement abut right-wing 'Christians' who do not favor the rather left-wing policies of welfare support. It's true that we do not know the fortunes of those not yet born, but we do know the situation many children are currently living in. To not care about these children is hardly pro-life.
     
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  7. Garball
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    Garball Sometimes nothing can be a real cool hand. Supporter Contributor

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    How did you deduce that she was only talking about Christians? It seems to me that she was broad-stroking the entire pro-life side of the aisle
     
  8. Aled James Taylor
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    Aled James Taylor Contributing Member Contributor

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    The reference to tax money narrows it down to the right-wing side of the aisle. And who but Christians listen to what nuns say?
     
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  9. Garball
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    Garball Sometimes nothing can be a real cool hand. Supporter Contributor

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    So, because somebody is affiliated with a certain organization, they can only speak to members of said organization?

    Couldn't you take it a step further and say she was talking only to Catholics, because who else would give a shit about a nun's words besides a Catholic?

    Or, maybe, it doesn't really matter if a nun or a stripper had said this.
     
  10. Aled James Taylor
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    Aled James Taylor Contributing Member Contributor

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    OK. If there are significant numbers of right wing pro-life Muslims in the US, then perhaps she visited a mosque and spoke to them.
     
  11. Lewdog
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    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

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    Imagine how much of a better world we would live in, if only the people that wanted to be born, and wanted to live were the ones who made up the majority of our population.
     
  12. Jack Asher
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    Jack Asher Wildly experimental Contributor

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    I don't suppose anyone here has read Freakonomics, but abortion is addressed in the first chapter. The writers make and extremely compelling, scientific, case that the crime drop of the last 20 years can be directly tied to the legality of abortion.

    As the authors put it: People who think they won't make good parents, don't make good parents.
     
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  13. Lewdog
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    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

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  14. ChickenFreak
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    ChickenFreak Contributing Member Contributor

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    That's not how I took the quote. I took it to mean that some people want to ensure that Child A is born, but they don't want to spend tax money to ensure that Child B gets food, education, immunizations, health care in general, whatever. A consistent position, IMO, would support both.
     
  15. Jack Asher
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    Jack Asher Wildly experimental Contributor

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    On the contrary, the inability to afford a child is the no. 2 reason sited for having an abortion.
     
  16. stevesh
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    stevesh Banned Contributor

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    More generally, I think the quote fails in its implication that all abortions were a good idea in retrospect. It's true that some living children live lives of deprivation and misery, but it's also true that many, many aborted children would, if allowed to exist, have lived decent, comfortable, even glorious lives.
     
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  17. Lemex
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    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    To quote Bill Hicks, I think we should 'Instead of worry about abortion, instead take care of the people who are already here, and who are very unwanted and very alone'.

    Abso-fucking-lutely.
     
  18. Garball
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    Garball Sometimes nothing can be a real cool hand. Supporter Contributor

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    Why can't we worry about both?
     
  19. Lemex
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    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    Human nature dictates that we can only care about one thing at a time. Otherwise people get confused, and that's how wars start. :p
     
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  20. Lewdog
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    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

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    I care about bacon and my cat at the same time. That's only because there is no such thing as a cat that poops bacon yet. YET!
     
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  21. jazzabel
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    jazzabel Contributing Member Contributor

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    Sorry all, I deleted the comment because I really don't have time for another of 'those' discussions.
     
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