Prostitution

Why does it matter?

The entire idea of paying for sex spits on morals anyway. So age shouldn't matter. I don't get why it does when prostitution is involved.

If a child does dishes to get money, what's the big difference if they get more green for sex?

 

If that's the case, there's almost certainly some sort of child abuse/neglect going on. This is much different than prostitution being legal. Outlawing prohibition is, as Elgaisma said, an issue of the government meddling in the sex lives of consenting adults.

 

What makes an adult?

There is research that shows that teens lack a frontal lobe use. Meaning they lack reasoning skills as well as figuring out how decisions affect them in years to come. Which is why they try drugs and do stupid things. This frontal lobe use doesn't come into play until late twenties...like 28. So mentally people are not a FULL GROWN adult until they're 30.

Science isn't used in this idea of adult.

This is legal crap, yet again.

 

References from peer-reviewed journals? Or do you just know?

As to the original question, I also live in a place where prostitution is legal, and there hasn't been a single problem I can remember since the law passed a few years ago. Streetwalking is virtually nonexistant now, since their are legitimate brothels (many still guised as 'massage parlours') in most major population centres. Now, if you don't wanna use their services, you can avoid them easily, and if you do, then you can do so in a safer, more private venue.

I agree that the government should stay out of the private lives of consenting adults. There's nothing inherently immoral about having sex for money; it may disagree with your morality, but the great thing about living in a free country is that that doesn't matter. So long as no one is endangering the lives of themselves or others, what do you care what people are doing?

People will cheat, have casual sex, contract STDS and use prostitutes whether or not prostitution is legal. All legalising it does is ensure that the experience is as safe as possible for those involved, which is ultimately what the government should be doing. Not making moral judgements, but ensuring the safety and freedom of its people to make their own moral judgements.

 

I do just know, because I read.

http://www.parade.com/news/2010/11/28-inside-the-teenage-brain.html

 

Ahahahahaha EPIC

That's your personal opinion and should be expressed as such, not as an absolute fact...

AMEN!

Yeah but who's making the John see hookers? It's his own free choice, resulting in it being his own damn fault if it backfires. I don't feel guilty about having done married men. The minute they decided to go see a hooker, they decided to cheat on their partner. If they chose me, that's because they were looking for me, not me preying on them...
There was one instance I refused a customer because he was married. That was because he wanted to take some videos of us in the act to wank to and buy a house for us to lead a secret live in while he keeps lying to his wife about loving her, and that went a tad too far in my book. Plus he was shorter than me, I don't like that.
Other married men were actually able to keep their marriage because of hookers. If their wife decided she no longer had to have sex with him because she got what she wanted (wedding dress, kids, stable life), they either start to resent her by being forced to wank, or they can put up with her because they get laid elsewhere.

Also, in my case AND in that of many men, free sex is not an option because: I'm fat and self-conscious and the sex being a JOB helps fighting that, because I really WANT it, but something about me seems to say: "Self-conscious hissy, don't even try" when there is no price tag on me. The only exception (men interested in me outside my job) were men who had grown up in where there was a mentality of "Women are cattle". No thanks. So I would never have got laid if it wasn't for my job. Hell, I never even got groped ever since I've stopped...
Same goes for men: When there's money involved, the chances of being rejected for being ugly or poorly hung or simply being very shy, are low.

FREE sex is NOT out there for everyone.
...though I did reject the all too unattractive, saying it was for other reasons of course.

2 years, 335 different partners, some unsafe, 1 very short case of gonorrhoea which was done away with with 3 pills in two days. And I think that ain't even worth mentioning, since it was once in 335 partners. 334, and I wouldn't have caught it.

It was when I still worked by having customers I only encountered through email, pick me up at night. I'm not easily scared and I have good people knowledge/"face reading" skills, which minimized the fear to healthy mistrust, but I do realize it was dangerous.
In the bar in Brussels, there was a lady with a phone ready to dial the cops as soon as I'd scream, so that felt safe. Not disease-wise but violence- or theft-wise. Then I worked in Villa Tinto in Antwerp, which has 3 alarm buttons directly connected to the police office that belonged to that brothel. One at the bedside, one in the hall and one in the bathroom. Of course that was no good when doing BDSM... But I kinda did it for the thrill, too.

See, that's not true in every country, I dunno about yours but many advertise offering and successfully demanding a certain level of class, others work in bars and clubs where there are strong regulations, showers and even dress codes. And I worked in the show window which meant I could see the customer before choosing to serve him, and I had mostly decent or at least, clean and healthy guys. For the 15 men I accepted per day (on average), I refused 40

Sir, marihuana is illegal and it is NOT any more harmful than alcohol (which tends to kill, and not only the drunk) and cigarettes (cancer anyone?).
Having sex with a 16-year-old is illegal in many places while a person that age can be just as consenting and aware of what they're doing as a 60-year-old. Selling fanart is illegal eventhough it's no competition for original creators. Fur farming, a horrible and redundant cruelty, is legal in way too many places. Bullying an unstable person into suicide is perfectly fine with all judges.
Something being illegal doesn't mean it's bad.

Actually there are courses and seminars afaik.... But more about the business part...

Not in all cases. And what about sweatshop workers? It's not only the sex industry.

Unless it provided jobs like bodyguard, supervisor,... Did you ever think of that?

Same for those who're promiscuous and give it up for free. And as the movie KIDS prooved, ONE time is enough to win the Grand Prix (Aids).

AMEN II!

AM---- Sorry, such wise words simply need no big reply.

Yeah, there's the statutory rape, the undermined authority etc., but what with 2 equals, the hooker and the John, who both chose to do it and have nothing to do with each-other outside of that?

In that case, all forms of sex are without consent. Why should consent to paid sex be less valid than consent to sex with the spouse? I'm horny, I say yes. I want a new SLR camera, I say yes. I don't, I say no. End of story.

Rape is beyond "consent"... And he could still be a fire fighter, and a rapist

I was not abused and I was far from poor when I started.

Sorry but this explains alot. Of course when you only encounter the convicted hookers and/or pimps, you're only shown the dirty rear-end of the business. But should I, for instance, go and condemn all China because the first thing I saw about Chinese was them eating lovely kittens?

Actually, directly soliciting customers (is that the term?) is illegal in Belgium, for example. You get to strut your stuff in the show window of a hooker bar, but you may not walk up to a guy on the street and say "Hey, do me". I think that's good. The John has to address the hooker, not vice-versa.
And going to a guy's house to do him, is not smart at all, no reasonable hooker would do that. It drives away the client whos privacy has been invaded by her, and it can get her killed

By far not all, in Belgium for instance pimping is also illegal.

Actually, that was my case, except the heart of gold was very limited toward the client...

Like bars with alcoholic beverages? Or more like religious schools that poison children's minds?

 

The problem with saying "all your points were addressed" is that when you address these points, you paint everything with a very large, very generalizing brush. It seems like you're looking at the armpit of the prostitution industry and saying that's how it is everywhere. Either you're willfully ignoring that there are better examples of prostitution/escort services elsewhere or you're legitimately not accepting that they exist. Either way, your argument seems a little flawed.

Spits on whose morals? This is the problem with basing arguments on such a loose concept of morals...everyone's are different.

 

That's my point. Age doesn't matter in sex.

 

....how is that your point? According your post, the reason that age shouldn't matter is because those who engage in prostitution are already spitting on morals, so worrying about age shouldn't matter. But if you're not someone who views selling sex as morally wrong, then you're not spitting on any morals, so how does that negate the importance of age?

On the topic of age, for me it isn't so much a number thing as it is a matter of mindsets and where people are in their life. I'm an adult, working to make a living and support myself, preparing to have children. I wouldn't want to snuggle up with some kid in high school because mentally, we're nowhere near on the same level. Maybe that doesn't make sense, but that's how I look at it...

 

I explained about Informed Consent in a previous post and it applies to young people especially.

Reductionists, who are innocently misinformed, or in the pedo camp, attempt to explain that "sex" is just a body function and not involved in a host of psychological machinations. It is though, and there's no way a child can know and defend against the abstract tactics adult (games) they can invent to psychologically enslave a child. A child can consent to sex, but it's not "Informed" and so their consent is no consent at all.

 

When someone brings up morals...someone, like yourself, says whose morals.

Which is my point. Age doesn't matter and shouldn't. Because you think it's morally gross does. Not. Matter. Legal doesn't matter at all....

And my question that has not been answered is how do you know someone is an adult? Mentally, as I already linked, an adult isn't until 30.

If it's ok for teens to have sex what's the big deal if they have sex with a 50 year old?

 

No one is a pedo. Legally, sure, but this isn't a conversation about what is and isn't legal....since people are all for sex for pay if an "adult" (which has not been shown scientifically---what is an adult). That's legally wrong in many countries. Legality isn't up for discussion. Neither is morals....

A child doesn't exist unless you have science to back what you mean by science.

 

Your old "broad brush" comment isn't applicable. There's nothing to argue when a person is involved in criminal activity. There's plenty of drug dealers who sell to support their family, eat, and so on, but that does not excuse or justify the social harm drug dealing does. And, coldly selling what others give for free is not admirable, and is odd at best. One can hit the topic with a brush the size of Texas.

In addition, since we're talking about an industry and not exploring the millions of individual prostitute cases, some generalization is to be expected. The same could be done about any industry, hobby, etc.

 

I attempted to explain my view on that with my little story about how I look at "age" difference. For me, it's not so much an issue of "she's 35, he's 16" as it is where they are both physically and mentally in their lives.

Ok, so you're only condemning prostitution in places where it's illegal? That's not what it seems like in all the rest of your posts.

 

If they are not mentally on the same page, then the sex is morally wrong?

This could go for a 28 year old man and a 33 year old woman. He still wants to party his twenties away and she wants a relationship. Their sexual encounter would be wrong?

Age can be different by a few years and the mental connection can be off by 5 times as much.

 

It's not a scientific question because "science" is just a philosophy and not the beginning and end of human knowledge. If you're an aspiring writer, do not dare say it is. However, the idea of thought development is based on Jean Piaget's theory of thought development, and you can read some about it here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Piaget

Legality:

It is a major part of this because our minds are conditioned by our environment. In psych we look at the "biopsychosocial" in an attempt to understand the person. That means that their body may be an actor in their behavior. How they view the world may be an actor and how social forces like economics, political beliefs, religion, etc may affect behavior. So, the law does is important because if a person chooses to, or happens to, they did so for some biopsychosocial reason.

Meanwhile, the legal system in the US doesn't give a rat's ass about that unless you're totally insane (mentally disorganized). That's because the law has a religiously based Free Will basis.

Morality:

I don't believe in the strict meaning of morality, but it is code for Humanistic Ethics. Ethics are about reducing harm based on Existential reasons and they have everything to do with this topic. I talked a lot about that in previous posts and never mentioned morality because I am not religious and do not believe in the concept, but I do understand what morals translate to.

 

I really don't give two sh*ts about morality, to be honest. For me (which is what I said in my original post. In my opinion-) if two people are mentally and/or physically on vastly different levels, it would skeeve me out to know that they were engaging in the horizontal mambo.

Also, yes, the mental connection could be off by a far greater amount than their numerical age. This was kind of my point when I said that for me, age was not about numbers.

 

Recent research shows that human minds are not fully developed until the age of 30.

So if the human mind isn't finish growing wouldn't it be right to state that adult isn't until the age of 30?

Unless there is another way of dictating who is an adult other than brain development. That is what you were getting at with Jean Piaget, right?

As for philosophy...that's made up BS. I would rather trust science and their peer review over someone's haphazard opinion.

 

Then if they are mentally connected a 50 year old can, by your standards, have sex with a 16 year old.

Based on mental retardation...some do not mentally grow pass a certain age. They would pass your standards.

Unless I got something wrong.

 

I certainly wouldn't want my fifteen year-old niece having sex with anybody. Girl's too damn immature. I'm sure that she will be mature someday, but she ain't there yet. Sex has consequences and risks, just like alcohol and drug use, and those consequences and risks need a degree of maturity to handle. You can tell me that some people never really mature to that level, and you'd be right, but that isn't going to keep me, a voting citizen, from doing what I can to make sure my immature niece isn't out there dealing with stuff she can't yet understand. I'm glad there are laws against such things.

 

We discussed this in the beginning of the thread in relation to Sweden, Denmark, and Holland.

Again though, I will point out that there's no Swedish Prostitute Academy (SPA) that rich and middle class people aren't clashing to get their kids into one or have such a thing built.

That's because the idea behind the legalization of that and drug use is to limit and evil not liberate an oppressed thing that's great. I'm for legalizing all of it for that reason, but that does not mean I want anyone to engage in those activities.

I think an interesting contrast to my SPA is how girls are barred from education in some Muslim countries, then schools are built for them, the girls pour in, and the schools need to be blown up to discourage attendance. That shows the belief that educated women are desired by parents to the point that they will risk great harm to achieve it. If the SPA were built it would be filled with dust soon enough.

 

Sorry to hear that. My wife can't have kids; she's got ovarian cysts something awful and a few other health problems. We do alright, though. You don't really miss what you don't have. She'll get a case of "baby-itis" sometimes when she's around one, but it passes. We have each other so we're happy.

 

To get back to your book, this is the kind of stuff I could read all day. You last paragraph is why you should go ALL OUT and write the most honest book you can!

On a side note, my wife was born with issues preventing her from having kids and I learned a lot about what can be done to help. If you're in France, I understand they have very good medical care for women's issues. Anyway, if your issue involves scar tissue there's things that can be done.

In the end, my wife cannot have kids, she told me on the first date, I gained massive respect, she proved to be a wonderfully kind and fun person and won my eternal loyalty. We have fun on a daily basis and the plan is to continue.

What more can one ask for?

 

I always found it interesting that the many kids to come out of catholic or christian private schools would always turn out to be the more socially experimental type. Many kids at my high school that came from a certain private christian school spend their time sexing it up and getting crunk.

Are you at all close to your catholic roots? I wish they would've provided you the opportunity to learn in those schools...

People for some reason think that the best way to keep people from misusing sex is to avoid the topic altogether... which is a horrible idea...

For example, I used to watch porn (hehe), but when I got tired of that and started looking for more, instead of going into some Ted Bundy rampage of "searching for the next best thing", I chose actual education about sex and stuph. This made me value the experience of sex beyond the empty experience that porn provided.

Now, I can't watch porn... cuz I like sex so much.

Problem solved.

 

So you think we should allow a five year old and thirty five year old to have sex >? Cos the five year old thought it was OK and said yes?

If we are going to use science then 30 makes less sense physically as it is passed the optimal time for getting pregnant. 14-18 is in the right ballpark because it is using the biological clock.

Not all teens and twenty year olds are idiots so your reasoning does not come in to play. Most aren't. Added to the frontal lobe is the fact you start losing the ability to think in other ways.