1. carsun1000
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    carsun1000 Active Member

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    Question about Electro-shock Therapy

    Discussion in 'Research' started by carsun1000, Dec 31, 2015.

    Doing a piece on a 10 year-old that killed his father, but twenty-eight years later, he couldn't remember that he actually killed his own father. I was wondering if Electroconvulsive therapy (ECT) or Electro-shock treatment could have been performed on him at that time to make him forget. Also, could there have been other options to make someone forget that they committed such a crime? I am open to ideas.

    The character is a full blown killer now and couldn't remember that he'd killed before. Any suggestions? Thanks.
     
  2. BayView
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    BayView Contributing Member Contributor

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    If it was an especially traumatic event for him, it could just be a repressed memory/dissociative amnesia, I'd think.

    A bit controversial, though.
     
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  3. BrianIff
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    BrianIff I'm so piano, a bad punctuator. Contributor

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    The memory loss is plausible.

    http://www.psych.med.umich.edu/ect/common-side-effects.asp

    Ethically, and especially in the absence of severe depression and a failed response to medication, ECT has not been used to wipe out memory by conventional psychiatrists due to its hazards and the quandary of memory erasure.

    Your route, if you're going to stick to reality, would have to be performed by rogue doctors. But it's not unheard of for experiments to attempt this: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/montreal-woman-seeks-compensation-in-50s-brainwashing-case-1.670151
     
  4. carsun1000
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    carsun1000 Active Member

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    If it helps my cause here, my character's uncle (a Psychiatrist) performed the test on him because he hated his brother-in-law (very abusive type). But That uncle died before my character could get answers to his personality. So that could be considered a rogue experiment of some sort right?
     
  5. BrianIff
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    BrianIff I'm so piano, a bad punctuator. Contributor

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    Yes, acting on what he wants to do outside of professional practices, he could.
     
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  6. carsun1000
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    carsun1000 Active Member

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    I thought about that as well. Problem is, there is an older sister who remembered what happened with explicit details.
     
  7. carsun1000
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    carsun1000 Active Member

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    Thanks
     
  8. BrianIff
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    BrianIff I'm so piano, a bad punctuator. Contributor

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    Just one more thing! He'd obviously have to do this at a hospital, and I'm not sure if he would need others' assistance to do the procedure, but he'd have to fabricate a medical report about depression and failed medication (or how the medication is prohibited due to age -- I don't know how young people can be to take ADM), unless he did it at night or something, but then we're back to whether he can do it alone or has accomplices.
     
  9. carsun1000
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    carsun1000 Active Member

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    The plan right now was to go in at night with the boy. This is almost 40 years ago when security was a little lax at places like this. No paper trail either since he was sneaking the boy in at night for the treatment.
     
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  10. Simpson17866
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    Simpson17866 Contributing Member Contributor

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    Electroshock therapy is like a defibrillator for the brain, only far more gentle than a defibrillator for the heart.

    I'd recommend looking into hypnosis instead. Hypnosis doesn't work if the subject puts even the slightest effort into stopping it from working, but a 10-year-old kid who killed his father would probably jump on anything that he's told can make the pain go away.

    BTW, I was once hypnotized into forgetting my own name if anybody's interested ;)
     
  11. carsun1000
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    carsun1000 Active Member

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    You ended up remembering though...:). And how long can hypnosis last? I would like something that take the memory away for decades...
     
  12. Simpson17866
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    Simpson17866 Contributing Member Contributor

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    @carsun1000 Only when the hypnotist told me to remember :D If he had forgotten to do that, and somebody tried to remind me of my name while it was forgotten, I have no idea whether I would've remembered "Oh, right, that is my name!" or rejected it "No, that doesn't feel like my name."
     
  13. Prett
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    Prett New Member

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    ECT definitely impairs memory, and although it's still used now, it's fairly rare and would need a more severe mental disorder that is resistant to other treatments, such as chronic depression that has failed to respond to antidepressants and psychotherapies. However if it was done 30-40 years ago then there are a lot more mental disorders that ECT was more common and used for more disorders, but you'd have to look these up to make sure you get the most realistic for the time it occurred. Also, ECT is actually quite effective in the short term but the symptoms often reappear, so it's unlikely the ECT would have actually cured the person of anything. But if it's just used purely for to erase memories that wouldn't be an issue. Hope this helps in some way
     
  14. psychotick
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    psychotick Contributing Member Contributor

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    Hi,

    First no. ECT could not be used to make him forget such a thing. It does have an impairment effect on memory but mostly it's on short term memory. Major traumatic memories from more than a matter of hours to a day before would endure.

    Second there's little in the way to guide the process to block certain particular memories. It's not used for that purpose. What it does is basically calm people and take the emotion out of certain things.

    However forty years ago they used higher voltage and the effects of the procedure were much more severe.

    Also it can't be performed by one person. It's a procedure that involves light anaesthesiology. So at the very least you should have an anaesthetist, a nurse and a doctor in the room.

    As for ways to wipe out memories, there is no approved medical way to do this. It's unethical. There are stories - there are always stories - of the KGB and the CIA etc, developing techniques to do this. Mostly this would involve some combination of drugs and neuro linguistic reprogramming and the memories would not be wiped - they're blocked. Which means they can be unblocked.

    There are also supposedly drugs that can have long term effects / impairment on memories, but they're usually permanent, non-specific as in they wipe a hell of a lot, and they have other off target effects. (Supposedly. No drugs that could do this would ever get medical approval.)

    Your best bet for treating the kid would be to try some sort of NLP procedure which can be done without drugs.

    Cheers, Greg.
     
  15. carsun1000
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    carsun1000 Active Member

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    Thanks much Greg , can you however expatiate on the NLP procedure? I honestly have no idea what that might be.
     
  16. psychotick
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    psychotick Contributing Member Contributor

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    Hi,

    Neuro-Linguistic Psychotherapy - one of the offshoots of neuro linguistic programming.

    It's a strange mish mash of science and pseudo science and there are practitioners who claim it can do everything up to and including curing schizophrenia. However ignore that garbage and the pseudo science jargon its practitioners claim, and you'll find in the psychotherapy part of the paradigm a whole grab bag of basic techniques that can help people do all sorts of things. Overcoming phobias, poor self esteem, body image issues etc. A lot of these techniques like affirmations etc have migrated into general psychotherapy.

    I don't know if it can do anything for memory loss per se, but it is the only tool in the psychologists kit that might and I'm sure for your work if you google it and something about suppression of aberrant memories / trauma you'll find someone who'll swear it can.

    Cheers, Greg.
     
  17. GingerCoffee
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    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    I can't speak to the memory issues, you can look those up online. I believe I recall Hemingway thought his memory or at least his writing ability was impaired after ECT which contributed to his suicide.

    But back to what I do know: It is not gentle. I have watched it administered. You put a tongue blade in the patient's mouth because they go into a full-on seizure with the shock. It's horrid to watch.
     
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  18. Lewdog
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    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

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    Carrie Fisher gets it done about every six weeks. She says it helps tremendously with her depression.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1357601/Carrie-Fisher-confesses-Oprah-regular-electric-shock-therapy-help-battle-depression.html
     

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