Rape

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by Azeher, Apr 16, 2011.

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  1. Sidewinder

    Sidewinder Contributor Contributor

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    1 in 6 women in America has been victim of an attempted or completed rape. Not all that surprising that some people find this to be a sensitive issue.
     
  2. Elgaisma

    Elgaisma Contributor Contributor

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    It doesn't matter if the person has experienced it or not - what does matter is they treat the matter with sensitivity. And as I said in a previous couple of posts rather someone who felt urges to rape did it in fiction than in real life.

    I write very often about gay men who can't keep their hands off each other. I am neither male nor gay lol I can however still handle the subject matter involved in a responsible matter. I also write about teenage boys and elderly people. We have imagination as writers and an ability to ask others questions and research. Part of me in my next Cream and Black story is contemplating the idea of having one of them raped as a result of a TV documentary I saw when I was 15 oddly about two months before I was assualted - about men who had been raped and it felt to me like an issue that should be talked about.

    Also whilst I wasn't raped it was classed as a serious sexual assault - I didn't come out of it without bruises - I got off lightly in comparison to two other women he had attacked the same evening one who had been thrown through a glass partition. Thing is I have written experiences I have had and if I was to give my characters the pick yourself up dust yourself down attitude it would be classed as unrealistic it is important to give something that comes across as believable to others and that is not always the 'real' reaction. Artistic licene is needed and imagination even when it is something close to you because just because you behaved a certain way does not mean your character would and it never works forcing your opinions and views on a character.
     
  3. Trish

    Trish Damned if I do and damned if I don't Contributor

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    I actually would have thought the numbers were higher. How sad is that? Maybe that's my own experience talking.. LOL
     
  4. Alter-Ego

    Alter-Ego Active Member

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    so arn't you doing the same thing by instantly stopping reading? you can't make it go away by avoiding it. Only by reading, listening and finally understanding it.

    What I think is interesting is the reaction to rape stories. The "abhorrence" and "disgust." yet to write about murder which is the final rape, seems perfectly OK and acceptable.
     
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  5. Azeher

    Azeher New Member

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    @ Trish: That goes with the plot, so it's fine. If you read all my responces, completely, you'll see I only understand the use of it if it goes with the plot and was "necessary". But imagine this (and I read it):
    A girl who lives with her uncaring parents discovers she has magical powers and has to travel to another dimension where magical creatures like her live. But, before leaving, her dad rapes her because she was "pretty" (and because the author seemed to want to state he was evil; a thing wasn't unnecesary because it was already obvious). Then she just leaves her home, arrives to that new land, meets lot of friends and goes through several magical conflicts. She neves goes back home again, and it wasn't like it was a result of the rape since she had already decided not go back before it happened.

    This was an original fic I read years ago. I was like fourteen. I then reviewed the story saying I liked the way she [the author] told things, but I asked her what the reason of the rape was. I told her I hated rapes but before stoping reading I wanted to know HER reason to use it if the plot had NOTHING to do with it. She said, she felt it'd attract more readers and she'd get more reviews...

    The sad thing: many amateur or not confident writers do think the same...
    I don't support this.

    There are other stories in which the MC is raped, then several years happened and now the story is about her dealing with a serial killer that no, is not the raper. The matter just vanishes and don't even affect her way of taking decissions.

    There was a manga I read in which a character turned gay after almost being raped when a kid. I kept reading because it made me understand more about sodomia, traumas and homosexuality. There were other children raped by the same guy who lived the rest of their lives based on that experience. It was hard to read it, but it was well performed.
     
  6. Melzaar the Almighty

    Melzaar the Almighty Contributor Contributor

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    Okay, but people don't "turn gay" because they get raped. :p Just putting that out there. Maybe facing up to other sexual issues in their life makes them more aware, or they could because of the psychological problems from the rape not feel comfortable with the opposite sex and so if there is even the smallest amount of bisexuality in them they'll cling to it rather than face up to their feelings and issues with the opposite sex. There are plenty of people raped as children who I'm sure never "turned" gay, but had their sexual issues entirely with the opposite gender.
     
  7. Show

    Show Contributor Contributor

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    Rape's not supposed to be something that we LIKE seeing in a story. We're supposed to be disgusted by it.
     
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  8. Trish

    Trish Damned if I do and damned if I don't Contributor

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    I have read all of your responses, in their entirety. Some of them seemed a bit contradictory so I thought I'd see what you deemed acceptable. Now I understand better. Thank you for answering.

    That's obviously a blatant shock value usage from a young (I'm guessing) amateur writer. Most more mature writers wouldn't do that.
     
  9. Melzaar the Almighty

    Melzaar the Almighty Contributor Contributor

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    In defence of the rape scenes I wrote as a 15 year old, they were near the end of the novel, and while definitely included for shock and to prove I was all amazing and everything for daring to write them, they were very much a product of the plot, and affected it deeply. :p
     
  10. Azeher

    Azeher New Member

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    Ah, yeah, let me explain (although I don't see why should I). He turned gay because it was the fault of a girl that he almost got raped, and then he was saved by his best friend (a male). He started hating women as he grew up and became very protective to his best friend, slowly developing feelings for him.

    This is just a manga. The concept must not be perfect, especially if the mangaka never went through a similar experience. Maybe it's not even realistic but to me, there wasn't any loose thread.

    Edit:

    I had a gay friend. His mother once implied he turned gay after his uncle raped him. Well, the guy even went to jail. After she told us so, he never talked to us, his friends again.

    @ Trish: My posts seem contradictory because sometimes it's hard for me to explain things that I feel. It happens to me with everything, I have hard times sharing my feelings :redface:

    And you're welcome. I like to listen and respond to others. It's interesting hearing others.
     
  11. mammamaia

    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

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    good questions, azeher!

    how i feel about it is disgusted, enraged... and despairing, since it's a facet of human nature that seemingly will never be done away with...

    no one i know has been raped, that i know of, but my younger sister was 'molested' once, as an almost-teenager...

    i'm ashamed to have to say 'yes'... in both a novel and a short story...

    at the time, i felt it was simply part of writing plots that were based on the rape event... but i did not feel very 'comfortable' writing the scenes...

    as an 'idea' for a story, it was... as a moral choice, now i know it was not...

    yes, it was, in both cases, since the plot revolved around the rape and its consequences to both victim and rapist...

    however...

    since then, i have come to realize how wrongful it is to use violence as entertainment and i no longer either write or help anyone write any fiction that has any violent content whatsoever...
     
  12. Elgaisma

    Elgaisma Contributor Contributor

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    Not every person that has an affair with someone of the same sex is bi/gay or lesbian. Just like it is possible to be gay and have a sexual relationship with a person of the opposite sex. Sometimes other emotions over ride basic biology.
     
  13. Azeher

    Azeher New Member

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    Lol your response was so cute. I'm happy you responded my questions!
    I think I feel exactly the way you do.
     
  14. Trish

    Trish Damned if I do and damned if I don't Contributor

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    I just don't think that avoidance of violence and/or rape is a practical or even healthy stance. It's like saying "I buy meat at the grocery store so I'm not harming animals like a hunter does". The problem still exists and many people find it therapuetic to write about their experiences.
     
  15. Azeher

    Azeher New Member

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    I don't feel that much of uncomfortable when dealing with violence (my most hated themes are rapes, mutilation and kids deaths). Even I have been victim of hard violence. My older sister has been too.

    Although it's true it shouldn't be used as entertainment, I'm ashamed to say I use it in my writings very often since they have to do with it. However I like to think that if someone reads my stories they will learn that it's not good.

    Rapes on the other hand, I can't help but not to like to read about them. Sometimes I get strength and do it, but most of time I don't. It may be wrong, but until now I haven't found a way to make myself cold-blooded about it. To me, it's even worse than death because of many reasons. And while reading, especially graphic rapes, I feel that rather than mature I'm being morbid and the story feels morbid too.
    Again, I understand rapes that are used for plot and character development, but it still feels horrible for me.
     
  16. Sidewinder

    Sidewinder Contributor Contributor

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    Really? That seems like a fairly extreme point of view. What about The Three Stooges? Probably not a good idea to get into this here as it would be off topic. Just wanted to express my surprise at this viewpoint.
     
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  17. Trish

    Trish Damned if I do and damned if I don't Contributor

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    I guess I understand that. What I don't understand is why you feel ashamed? You're not the first person to say that either. I have written rape, I write some pretty hardcore violence too, but I am not ashamed and nothing could make me be so. I write what I need to write, for the characters, for the plot, for my own soul. I don't write it for shock value, I don't write it in the hopes that someone will read it and get a kick out of it. I write it in the hopes that someone will read it and feel my character's pain, will cry along with them, will feel abused, outraged, diminished along with them. And then, hopefully, they will rise above it along with my character as well. They will be stronger for it and if I've done my job well will have a little more understanding for the woman next to them on the bus, on the news, or next door. That is my goal as a writer.
     
  18. Alter-Ego

    Alter-Ego Active Member

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    so if someone came to you with a story about a guy that was doing good but controversial things in say, Israel. And his peers took affront to it and had him killed by nailing him to a cross. You'd tell them you wouldn't "help" them because they were using violent content as entertainment?

    Way to put your head in the sand and pretend nothing bad in this world exists.

    There's a big difference between using violence to teach, and violence to entertain, in writing. But I defy you, or anyone to be the judge for all of us, as to which is which. In the end the person reading has to be their own judge.
     
  19. TheSpiderJoe

    TheSpiderJoe New Member

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    I completely agree.

    Shock value to me is the equivalent of reality television programing. Easily produced, quickly forgotten. Sure you remember certain segments but the overall concept and story is lost.

    My first novel is, for the lack of a better term, a bloodbath. But I didn't write it that way so someone would come along and say "man that was brutal". I wanted to convey to my readers just how horrible this villain is and the extent at which he will assert his dominance.

    There could be a number of reasons why anyone would shy away from a controversial topic. I praise those that choose to tackle it head on. If your book doesn't take a risk, then when will you?
     
  20. Unit7

    Unit7 Contributor Contributor

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    I take it your not a fan of L&O: SVU?

    That was when I started thinking: "how is it that there are people who love getting their characters raped or even think about getting them raped?" I know authors that even enjoy it. I don't understand it.[/quote]

    Makes sense. In fact I can actually seeing this completely possible. Are you aware that it's not uncommon for men and women to have a rape/near rape fantasy? There is also the whole BDSM scene. So for someone to suggest people enjoy writing rape scenes or reading about it, I say yeah. Of course one only needs to take a stroll to their nearest erotica site.

    You don't have to understand the reasoning why. I am sure there are a dozen different reasons why someone might enjoy writing and reading such stories.


    In Fiction I say anything goes. In real life? Let's just say I am not exactly going to lose any sleep once they become Bubba's new wife. I have never written an actual rape scene. I have had a character who was raped. I didn't go into the details of the actual event though. Though well I guess I did come rather close to such a scene. I think I felt disgusted about it. Though whether it was because it horribly written or because of what was happening. Not sure.

    Actually I have had a couple of my characters... well one character wasn't mine but had a canon character get raped. Well didn't write the scene but it was later revealed. It was to explain why these characters were so close in the canon.

    Was it a good idea? I dunno. I suppose. Personally I have no problems with rape happening within a story or movie or tv show. It all depends on how it's handled and why its in the story to begin with. So as far as my own stuff goes. Maybe. I just don't know. At the time it was a good idea, might do things differently now.

    Was it necessary? Probably. Maybe. Not sure.
     
  21. Elgaisma

    Elgaisma Contributor Contributor

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    I think as writers we should be approaching difficult subjects with issues that people face in their lives - to not we do a disservice.
     
  22. Melzaar the Almighty

    Melzaar the Almighty Contributor Contributor

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    Going back to a comment on the other page I forgot to quote while I was there about needing to be "cold-blooded" to write rape and violence, you don't need to be. You really don't. I always end up shaking horribly after writing something brutal, and usually if my characters are being very cruel I write the whole thing hugging a stuffed toy aardvark very similar to the one in my avatar :p I had cried over the things that happen in my novels but I still write them because that's the story I want to write, and if I pulled back and didn't write it my writing would have none of the power I want it to.
     
  23. Smoke

    Smoke New Member

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    On the broader topic of violence in general, it does happen. There is the lesser evil of just having boring books if everything was sanitized, however. In the "safe" context of having violence in a book, a person could experience the violence and start setting up mental patterns of not wanting it to happen. Empathy may be the wrong word, but it's the direction I'm thinking. Vicariously having it happen to characters you care about means you don't actually have to suffer yourself or have it strike a loved one in reality before you start to wake up to the wrongness.

    Of course, I don't have a good answer on whether or not that violence should be warned about. If rape didn't happen as a surprise IRL, there are ways a woman could avoid it better, or resort to the immediate revenge of the inter-vaginal spike-trap. But out of sensitivity to the people where unexpectedly reading about it would ruin their day, it might need to lose its impact.
     
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  24. Yoshiko

    Yoshiko Contributor Contributor

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    1. It doesn't bother me at all in fiction - what does bother me is when there're unrealistic character reaspones to it. I don't mind whether a writer chooses to gloss over description or if they go into detail as long as it feels plausible. I don't think there's anything worse than a badly written rape scene. When done correctly it can be powerful but it doesn't have the strength to instantly make me sympathise with a character, so it's best reserved for later in the novel to give me time to bond with the character.

    Can I say that, "it doesn't bother me in real life" without sounding heartless? Having been put in that situation at a very young age, I didn't know that it was morally wrong even when I was told not to tell anyone. Even though I know better now I still can't see it as something as bad as it supposedly is because it never effected me until I understood what it was - this wasn't until 5~6 years later in school. Until then I didn't think it was anything serious and I still can't quite think of it quite as harshly as everyone else.


    2. Yes, my characters have been raped - in two projects, including my current WIP, the main character has been the rapist. In my WIP I put off writing the scene for five months because I adored the character he hurt, plus it was horrible to write, but I felt it was a necessary scene. The scene is meant to twist the reader's views on both characters involved - following the scene both of their personalities flip: instead of showing the victim as "broken" following this scene, it's the rapist's composure and self-confidence that starts to crumble once common sense kicks in and he realises what he's done; the victim begins to act more out-spoken around the MC, stronger, so as not to put himself in another position where he appears vulnerable.
     
  25. Azeher

    Azeher New Member

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    @ Unit7: I like the way you say things. Very like yourself. I liked the way you expossed things from your point of view, aware you might be either right or wrong, and without forcing those ideas on others.

    Yeah, I suppose people use rapes as a matter of erotism. It's still wrong for my sigh.

    @ Melzaar: The stuffed toy was like a nice touch lol
    But seriously, even if not cold-blooded, you're "more" cold-blooded than I am. Though I don't cry for what I do to my characters, no matter how much I love them. I think it's because I had already decided it had to happen that way.
     
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