1. Hannibal Alexander
    Offline

    Hannibal Alexander Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2012
    Messages:
    103
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    San Francisco Bay Area, CA

    Read This -- "If my son wanted to dance, I would kill myself"

    Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by Hannibal Alexander, Aug 2, 2013.

  2. JJ_Maxx
    Offline

    JJ_Maxx Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2012
    Messages:
    3,339
    Likes Received:
    501
    He lets his six-year-old listen to Macklemore? And we wonder why our country is so messed up.
     
  3. JJ_Maxx
    Offline

    JJ_Maxx Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2012
    Messages:
    3,339
    Likes Received:
    501
    That song is full of vulgarity and sexual innuendos and is not appropriate for a six-year-old. It has nothing to do with musical style. It's disgusting and parents are poisoning their children.
     
  4. erebh
    Offline

    erebh Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2013
    Messages:
    2,618
    Likes Received:
    464
    Location:
    Sacramento
    I heard that song, played it in my club at the weekend, guess I never listened to the lyrics but I just googled them - yeah not good for a 6 year old and nothing innuendo about it - out straight vulgarity and I don't think it's a case of e getting old - it's just not good for kids - you have to blame the parents - and MTV (and their ilk) for not playing after the watershed when kids are tucked up with Barney toys like they should be.
     
  5. JJ_Maxx
    Offline

    JJ_Maxx Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2012
    Messages:
    3,339
    Likes Received:
    501
    Um...yeah. Erm...

    *looks around*

    Sorry, I don't think you've ever agreed with me before and I'm not sure how to handle it. ;)
     
  6. erebh
    Offline

    erebh Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2013
    Messages:
    2,618
    Likes Received:
    464
    Location:
    Sacramento
    was a bit surprised myself - we disagree on politics - not our kids!
     
  7. mbinks89
    Offline

    mbinks89 Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2012
    Messages:
    551
    Likes Received:
    25
    Location:
    Montreal
    While I agree it's too mature for a six year old, "It's disgusting and parents are poisoning their children," seems a little too vitriolic.
     
  8. IronPalm
    Offline

    IronPalm Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2013
    Messages:
    301
    Likes Received:
    21
    I agree there's nothing wrong with boys learning to dance (I enjoyed dance classes myself when I was younger, and don't see it as un-masculine at all), but your statement above can be taken too far. And often is, by modern Western society. More often, in fact, than what you're arguing against.

    On a related note, the mother writing that article sounds nuttier than squirrel shit. She's probably patting herself on the back about what a great parent she is, but in reality, is probably even worse than that man. Her immature outburst to that father about therapy is also deliciously ironic.
     
  9. Mauthos
    Offline

    Mauthos Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2013
    Messages:
    79
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    Bristol - UK
    Yeah, dancing is terrible for boys, especially ballet as they will never end up incredibly buff, strong and looking masculine thanks to all that training that helps develop excellent core strength, flexibility and a ripped frame...
     
  10. jazzabel
    Offline

    jazzabel Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2012
    Messages:
    4,273
    Likes Received:
    1,666
    If only they knew how much nookie goes on in ballet school, more than the dads could ever dream of for themselves :D Perhaps they are jealous?
     
  11. KaTrian
    Offline

    KaTrian A foolish little beast. Staff Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2013
    Messages:
    5,564
    Likes Received:
    3,561
    Location:
    The Great Swamp
    Apparently that daddy wants his son to die a virgin. J/k.
    But that's just awful. Not saying this always happens, but my cousin had a daddy like that, super-strict, "it's my way or the highway", which caused the son to really, really rebel, the bad way, so in the end he dropped the ball. Now he's in prison. Can't help but partly blame the dad for shitty parenting, even though parenting sure isn't easy.

    If I was a straight guy I'd totally train ballet (Van Damme did too!). Or horse-back riding. End result: a killer bod and so much attention from athletic girls, so little competition from other guys.
     
  12. IronPalm
    Offline

    IronPalm Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2013
    Messages:
    301
    Likes Received:
    21
    You guys keep mentioning ballet, when the article explicitly states that

    So her six year-old boy isn't going to taking ballet any more than the son of the father making a rude joke. Instead, he will probably take some second-rate hip-hop class for kids, and probably get bored of it in a few weeks, when he realizes that unlike dancing to music for fun, taking a dance class is fucking hard work.

    The mother will continue with her superiority complex and egotism, while assuring herself that her son is a perfect angel, and all the other six year-olds suck.
     
  13. jazzabel
    Offline

    jazzabel Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2012
    Messages:
    4,273
    Likes Received:
    1,666
    [MENTION=53403]KaTrian[/MENTION]: Those who know - know ;) I didn't know about Van Damme, I always thought he's too tiny to lift up a girl over his head? That's what separates men from boys in ballet school :D
     
  14. KaTrian
    Offline

    KaTrian A foolish little beast. Staff Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2013
    Messages:
    5,564
    Likes Received:
    3,561
    Location:
    The Great Swamp
    So? We don't know these people. Maybe Daddy dearest would kill himself if his son pulled on the tights and did ballet, we don't know what the Justin Timberlake -dancing kid's mom told him. I suppose it's okay to discuss and comment on something not strictly tied to the OP if it's brought up, especially because it's no news that ballet isn't considered masculine by, let's say, more traditional dads.

    I didn't know he's tiny :eek:
     
  15. IronPalm
    Offline

    IronPalm Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2013
    Messages:
    301
    Likes Received:
    21
    I would love to know what ballet company/school has male dancers substantially larger than 5' 10", ~180-200 pounds? It must be amazing seeing the equivalent of NFL running backs and linebackers performing pirouettes!

    Edit

    Where are you getting this baseless assumption from? Did you even read the quote? It came directly from the kid (not his father, who is never mentioned a single time in the article, and likely isn't involved in raising him);

    Did you catch the "I'm" part this time? And that this entire exchange was news for his mother?

    By the way, his father not appearing anywhere in the article is a clue that the kid's parents are divorced. Which isn't surprising, because I got that vibe from the very beginning. It also explains his mother's irrational, childish temper tantrum resulting in her kid being pulled from the baseball game, and further outburst towards the parent. All because of a rude joke that most adults would normally brush off.
     
  16. jazzabel
    Offline

    jazzabel Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2012
    Messages:
    4,273
    Likes Received:
    1,666
    [MENTION=53403]KaTrian[/MENTION]: He just looks tiny, with those long legs,like a frog :D He isn't too short for a dancer, but at 177 cm he is a short guy (by my standards, which, granted, may be warped).
    [MENTION=54840]IronPalm[/MENTION]: These days, with improved nutrition and quality of life, all dancers, male and female, are taller and heavier (although not much heavier). I'd say an average for a male dancer these days is closer to 6 foot +, especially if they are doing classical. The girls need to be lifted and anorexia is frowned upon these days. But you are right, there's no exact height and upper body strength matters more. Australian dancers are typically tall, though, the tallest male being 6ft4 and tallest female almost 5ft11.
     
  17. KaTrian
    Offline

    KaTrian A foolish little beast. Staff Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2013
    Messages:
    5,564
    Likes Received:
    3,561
    Location:
    The Great Swamp
    [MENTION=35110]jazzabel[/MENTION] : I share your warpedness... married to a tall guy...
    But about ballet; I don't know much about it, but I've understood women have some height limit because of the lifts? At some point even 5'7 was too tall, but that seems to have changed?

    It'd be a pity if, say, a kid starts taking dance lessons (e.g. ballet), but they end up growing so tall they won't be able to be professional dancers after all.
     
  18. IronPalm
    Offline

    IronPalm Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2013
    Messages:
    301
    Likes Received:
    21
    I admittedly don't know much about ballet, so if this is the case, color me deeply surprised. I always figured a mutant like myself (I grew up to be 6' 5") was far too tall for the dance form. And I also haven't seen any ballet dancers with big arms and chests. In fact, I doubt they need more than a respectable amount of upper body, strength, actually; they are lifting very light girls, after all.
     
  19. T.Trian
    Offline

    T.Trian Overly Pompous Bastard Staff Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2013
    Messages:
    2,246
    Likes Received:
    1,449
    Location:
    Mushroom Land
    KaTrian can correct me if I'm wrong, but I do believe she was referring to the dad who said he'd kill himself if his son took up dancing. I thought that was obvious since the author's kid's dad was never even mentioned...
     
  20. KaTrian
    Offline

    KaTrian A foolish little beast. Staff Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2013
    Messages:
    5,564
    Likes Received:
    3,561
    Location:
    The Great Swamp
    What T said...

    "I told the story about my son informing me he wanted to dance in high school and a barrel chested man that looked like his glory days happened about 20 years ago bellowed out, "If my son wanted to dance, I would kill myself."

    We don't know what exactly mom told these people, so the barrel chested man (a dad) could refer to dancing in general, including ballet. I wasn't talking about the writer's son's dad and I wasn't referring to what the kid said. Did that clarify where my baseless assumption came from or manage to convince you that I even read the quote and that I caught the "I'm" this time?

    ETA: though I did find the article a boring, annoying read (gee, woman, we get it, your kid is a-mah-zing!) so my focus may not have been at its best. Doesn't change the fact that I think that forcing (directly or indirectly) kids to certain gender roles sucks ass.
     
  21. jazzabel
    Offline

    jazzabel Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2012
    Messages:
    4,273
    Likes Received:
    1,666
    [MENTION=53403]KaTrian[/MENTION]: The height for girl increased, but you are right, the height range is fairly small, 2-3 inches at most, because it looks better on stage. Ballet has a massive rejection rate, and it's heartbreaking when a teenager, who's been working so hard since they were 3 years old, is rejected. Russian school is the toughest, but 'new world' ballet, like in Australia, USA, Holland, are much more progressive and permissive of varied body types. If you search 'Anaheim Ballet' on youtube, they have awesome videos.
    I never made it very far (I grew up to be quite curvy) but have several friends who went on to be prima ballerinas, and every time one would get too heavy (over 47kg) and couldn't lose weight, they'd send them to Moscow for 6 months, They'd come back looking like ghosts, with the most wicked technique. Ballet is very cruel, but so beautiful...

    [MENTION=54840]IronPalm[/MENTION]: 50 kg is quite standard these days for a ballerina, and I am told it's very challenging. But maybe guys I know are wusses :D
     
  22. chicagoliz
    Offline

    chicagoliz Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    May 30, 2012
    Messages:
    3,295
    Likes Received:
    815
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    As far as the male ballet dancers -- if you've ever really looked at them, they have some extremely impressive muscles. (Same for many of the ice skaters.) Lifting up a person while moving, even a light person, takes quite a bit of strength.

    As far as the column itself, her reaction was overblown. There are a lot of jackass parents out there. You just feel sorry for their kids and move on -- there isn't much you can do about it. Having a tantrum and causing a scene by leaving the game is ridiculous. Yes, I agree with her insofar as the idea of so what if her kid wants to dance like JT? A lot of kids do -- she's not even dealing with a son who truly has interests more associated with the opposite gender, or who is effeminate, or even transgender. Her mentioning of ballet weakens her argument -- the whole I'm not even talking about ballet. What if her kid did want to do ballet? I assume her position would be the same, but why even mention it then?

    Her self-righteous tone is irritating, and she seems to be seeking to cast herself as oppressed. Those people are very annoying. It is sad that the father she encountered proclaimed that he is very intolerant of anything that doesn't fit into his preconceived notions. I do wonder if his kid enjoys the baseball games that the dad probably makes him attend. Hopefully, his kid doesn't have interests different from his, or is *gasp* gay or transgendered. But who really knows -- all we know about him is the one stupid remark, which might not even convey his true feelings. It could have been a misguided and failed attempt at humor, and maybe his feelings aren't really that strong at all, and if his son became a dancer, he'd end up fine with it. But he does know that this mother flies off the handle at every opportunity, and will go out of her way to make a statement.

    The column would have been better at exploring the still-entrenched notions about gender roles, and how dance (which can be very masculine) plays into that. Of course, it would have been more cerebral and less provocative, and wouldn't get the attention it evidently is receiving.
     
  23. IronPalm
    Offline

    IronPalm Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2013
    Messages:
    301
    Likes Received:
    21
    But that's not who we were talking about. The article's author was a woman, and her son mentioned that he didn't want to do ballet.

    The father who uttered that quote was a different son's parent entirely. Why would his views in any way influence someone else's son?! Especially since the kid said this before his mom's temper tantrum at the baseball game? Before either of them even knew that rude father existed?

    Yes you were. You specifically responded to a quote of mine about the writer's son's choice not to take ballet, and said it was because his father (never mentioned in the story) might commit suicide. Here is your post.

    So despite the constant mentions of ballet, the six year-old, from his own lips, has no interest in it, and not because of phantom characters;

    It really depends on the "gender roles". I agree in this case, but the pendulum tends to swing way too far in the other direction nowadays.

    It's amazing how often and how much I agree with you, considering our political/social views probably couldn't be any more different. I literally agree with every sentence here.

    Yeah, people make dumb statements/jokes all the time, and responding to all of them with temper tantrums, besides being childish, is simply unproductive. It's also a hell of a stretch to assume someone is a horrible human being from a single bad joke. People should be judged primarily by actions, not words.

    And by that criteria, the article's author, instead of proving herself to be a bigger person than the man, actually proved herself a smaller, more petty, and childish one. Anyways, like I mentioned in my first post, I won't hold my breath for the follow-up story stating that her kid dropped out of children's hip-hop class after a few weeks, because (gasp!) practicing dance requires serious hard work and dedication, instead of randomly gyrating to music.
     
  24. KaTrian
    Offline

    KaTrian A foolish little beast. Staff Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2013
    Messages:
    5,564
    Likes Received:
    3,561
    Location:
    The Great Swamp
    I meant the father the mother met, the father who said he'd kill himself if his son took up dancing.
    That's who I meant.
    That's who. I meant.

    I apologize for a confusing placement of pronouns. The father who is not the father of the kid who wanted not to dance ballet is who I meant.

    :D
     
  25. T.Trian
    Offline

    T.Trian Overly Pompous Bastard Staff Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2013
    Messages:
    2,246
    Likes Received:
    1,449
    Location:
    Mushroom Land
    Newsflash 1: you have absolutely no way of knowing what somebody else meant, especially since KaTrian's post you mentioned and the part of your post she quoted don't present any conclusive evidence that she would have meant anyone else except the "rude dad." Not only that, but, for instance, to me (or, as it appears, almost everyone else but you), it was clear as day which dad she was talking about. That being said, it really would be for the best if we move on from the OT and return to doing what both, you and KaTrian were doing back when she posted that message, i.e. return to the topic (all of it, be it discussing certain people, contemporary dance styles, or ballet), especially since in this instance you are simply...

    Newsflash 2: you weren't talking about Rude Dad/ballet, some of the others were (e.g. Mauthos and jazzabel). That in no way means that somebody else couldn't or shouldn't bring up other people mentioned in the article or other things as long as they are somehow related to the subject at hand and carry some point relating to it. Especially since, as far as I know, it's within the scope of the rules of this board to discuss those other people without asking for express permission to do so. That, in turn, means that if I or anyone else feel like discussing any of the people mentioned in the article, we are free to do so and in that way contribute other ideas that might have otherwise been overlooked.
     

Share This Page