Rejection, rejection, rejection...

Discussion in 'Traditional Publishing' started by deadrats, Aug 19, 2016.

  1. Lew

    Lew Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2015
    Messages:
    1,667
    Likes Received:
    1,527
    If you got to the editors, you made some progress. Just started submitting my WIP to agents, and was encouraged to get at least one request for the full manuscript, though she rejected it in the end for "expositional dialogue." Wound up doing some rewriting cuz she was right.

    Before and after I retired from the Navy (till I was hired), I started sending out resumes, with visions of me and my family having to sleep on a steam grate somewhere in Omaha, and it gets cold there in winter. I kept a file of rejections with a goal of getting ten rejects a week... My view was that if I got a reject letter, at least they thought I was worth thinking about, which is better than silence.

    So take pride in you rejects, it means you are making progress. What I have learned regarding agents is that they receive several hundred queries a month, and over the course of a year will selects just tens of those several thousand to push. And I am sure the same is true if you are going directly to magazines and publishers. If you are getting replies, your foot is getting consistently in the door.
     
    cutecat22 likes this.
  2. Freethesea

    Freethesea Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2016
    Messages:
    84
    Likes Received:
    56
    Location:
    Ecuador
    Deadrats, you're obviously a good writer which can easily be seen by the clarity and emotion in your posts. All I can offer, because the others on this forum have responded so well, is that your biggest enemy is discouragement. If you allow discouragement to set in for any length of time, it is over. It's a monster enemy worse than Kylo, Dr. Doom and Hannibal Lector all rolled into one so don't let it make a nest in your head for long. Keep going like so many other successful writers have done.
     
    deadrats likes this.
  3. deadrats

    deadrats Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2016
    Messages:
    6,086
    Likes Received:
    7,419
    I've been feeling discouraged for years. The pieces I have sold feel like very short-lived victories. I know what I'm trying to do is a very hard thing, and I know most of you also know that. This writing thing must be a madman's game.
     
  4. Lew

    Lew Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2015
    Messages:
    1,667
    Likes Received:
    1,527
    Not a way to get rich, I understand! You have sold, spo you are ahead of me, take heart.
     
  5. Tenderiser

    Tenderiser Not a man or BayView

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2015
    Messages:
    7,471
    Likes Received:
    10,216
    Location:
    London, UK
    @deadrats, have you ever read Slush Killer? You'll need a good few hours if you want to read the comments (which I recommend) but wow, it's a valuable resource. It completely changed my view of the submissions process.

    http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/004641.html
     
    Kara Gatsby and deadrats like this.
  6. deadrats

    deadrats Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2016
    Messages:
    6,086
    Likes Received:
    7,419
    I haven't sold work to any place really impressive since I was a journalist. My literary credits, though not from bad publications by any means, are not all that impressive and there sure aren't many of them. I track my submissions on duotrope and my acceptance ratio for the last 12 months is at about 2 percent. And then there is a little note that says, "Your acceptance ratio is higher than the average for users who have submitted to the same markets." Gotta love duotrope, but if only 2 percent of my work getting published is considered a good thing, well, it's pretty discouraging. That means that for every hundred stories I write and submit, I should feel pretty good if two of them get published. I really don't like those odds. As much as I write, I don't think I could ever write a hundred stories in a year. That's a lot of writing. Okay, my goal just might be to write a hundred stories in a year. After I go mad, I should have two things published to show for it.
     
    Lew likes this.
  7. deadrats

    deadrats Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2016
    Messages:
    6,086
    Likes Received:
    7,419
    Thanks for the link. It does look interesting.
     
  8. deadrats

    deadrats Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2016
    Messages:
    6,086
    Likes Received:
    7,419
    Here's a funny one. I just got back a SASE so I know right away it's a rejection. But it could be from several places. There was nothing in the envelope. NOTHING.
     
  9. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2010
    Messages:
    13,984
    Likes Received:
    8,557
    Location:
    California, US
    Wow, a market that wants hard copy submissions? Is that still fairly common among literary journal? Even when I was an editor on the Missouri Law Review back in 1998 and 1999 we wanted electronic submissions, and that's what all the genre markets seem to be after.
     
    deadrats likes this.
  10. deadrats

    deadrats Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2016
    Messages:
    6,086
    Likes Received:
    7,419
    There are still quite a few. There are also places that allow for both. I think there is a benefit to standing out any way you can. There's just going to be less submissions coming through the mail. And some require it. For some of the really big places, that's the only way to submit. I wish I knew who just rejected me. I guess this is the real downside to the whole paper-submission thing.
     
  11. MarcT

    MarcT Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2016
    Messages:
    206
    Likes Received:
    149
    Location:
    Buenos Aires, Argentina.
    What a brilliant find!
    Superbly well written with style and finesse.
     
  12. DaWalrus

    DaWalrus New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2010
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    The Arctic
    Those no simultaneous-submission policies are what I really hate. Slows you down.
     
  13. deadrats

    deadrats Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2016
    Messages:
    6,086
    Likes Received:
    7,419
    They sure do. I've had one of those out for five months now. I think it is one of my best stories, and it is on submission to one of my favorite journals, but they don't allow simultaneous submissions. I try to follow the rules, but I'm not even sure it makes a difference. I recently got a rejection on another story that I sent out to five or six places at the same time. I didn't realize at the time that one of the places doesn't allow simultaneous submissions. And since I had to submit to this place by actual mail, there was no easy way to just withdraw it once I realized my mistake. This place was the last of the batch to reject me. If I had waited, well I guess that just means that story wouldn't have been rejected that many times yet. I really don't get why some places don't allow simultaneous submissions. I think if they are going to take months to send a form rejection, it's not really fair. But some of my favorite journals have this policy. I've got a new story almost ready to go out. I'm trying to decide if I want to send it to a few places that would allow me to do that or send it to one place that doesn't. Either way, it will be a long wait.
     
  14. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2010
    Messages:
    13,984
    Likes Received:
    8,557
    Location:
    California, US
    I don't like the policy either. But it's also a waste of time for editors to read and accept a submission only to find out it had sold elsewhere in the meantime.
     
  15. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2010
    Messages:
    13,984
    Likes Received:
    8,557
    Location:
    California, US
    My approach was to take simultaneous submissions and simply ask that authors update me if it sold elsewhere so I could remove it from consideration.
     
  16. Nightstar99

    Nightstar99 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2013
    Messages:
    255
    Likes Received:
    137
    When I click that link it says "seite nicht gefunden."

    How can I gefunde the seite?
     
  17. Nightstar99

    Nightstar99 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2013
    Messages:
    255
    Likes Received:
    137
    This ones hilarious:

    http://slushpilehell.tumblr.com/

    "I hope you enjoy my manuscript. In the beginning it is going to be hard for you to read as it’s fairly slow, but stay with it because the end will encourage you."
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2016
    Shenanigator likes this.
  18. Tenderiser

    Tenderiser Not a man or BayView

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2015
    Messages:
    7,471
    Likes Received:
    10,216
    Location:
    London, UK
    My link? Dunno, it's working for me. Perhaps try googling 'Slush Killer'?
     
  19. deadrats

    deadrats Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2016
    Messages:
    6,086
    Likes Received:
    7,419
    That's how it is at most places. I think that's a much fairer policy than saying no simultaneous submissions. So, you started a journal? Is it a secret which one it is? I would love to check it out. You can PM me if you don't want to post it.
     
  20. deadrats

    deadrats Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2016
    Messages:
    6,086
    Likes Received:
    7,419
    Just when I was thinking it had been a while since my last rejection, another one pops up in my inbox. It was a nice personal rejection from a dream publication. They never say why something was rejected. Most of the personal rejections I get just include a line or two stating they liked it. When I was logging this rejection in my records, I noticed that every time I have been rejected by this place, it has been a personal rejection. In the last few years, I have sent them six different stories. This place is one of my favorite journals to read. And it would seem I'm not way off base with what I am submitting. I don't know. It was my very best story that they just rejected. I just don't seem to have what it takes to win over an editor in the big leagues.
     
  21. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2010
    Messages:
    13,984
    Likes Received:
    8,557
    Location:
    California, US
    Sometimes (often?) it's not a matter of the story not being good enough, necessarily. It may be that for whatever reason it's just not the story they're looking for at that time - anything from length to the substance of the story itself, or that they have (or recently had) a competing story from an established author, or what have you. I can't say for certain, of course, but I wouldn't conclude automatically that something is wrong with the story.
     
    deadrats likes this.
  22. deadrats

    deadrats Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2016
    Messages:
    6,086
    Likes Received:
    7,419
    This story I believe is my best chance to publish in a decent literary journal or magazine. The first place it went to was an editor I know through someone who has looked at my work before. Like the other stories of mine, he didn't want this one. Then I sent it to all the really big places, like all the glossies and The Paris Review. They all rejected it. Now it's out at some of the top journals/popular journals in the lit scene. I'm really trying to get this one out there. I'm trying to not let rejection get to be as much with this one because I really believe this story WILL be published. I would send it to every market I'm interested in, but then none of my other stories would have a shot.

    The competition is just so fierce. It's ridiculous. I think that's the biggest challenge I'm facing. I usually try to get a good feel from the publication as to what the fiction is like that they tend to publish. I think that can make difference. It can make you smarter about submitting. I believe I've done everything I can do give my stories the best shot when sending them out.

    This story, my favorite work, my best story, was rejected again today. It was just a form rejection. I don't know if I should wait for responses from the other three or four places that still have it or send out another round. Everyplace I am sending this story to allows for simultaneous submissions. I usually send any given story out to about five or six places at a time, then repeat and repeat and repeat. I have a different story that has been rejected more than 20 times, maybe even more than 30. I sent it out again a few months ago, but maybe I went a little crazy. I think it's on submission at about a dozen places right now.

    Before anyone suggests critique or feedback. I don't feel like that is something I need right now. These are final drafts I am submitting to publications. Been through workshops and the whole MFA thesis process with these stories. These stories are so polished they are probably shiny. Sure, 20 or 30 rejections for one story is a real lot, but all the markets I'm going for are very competitive. Knowing this doesn't make rejection easier, but I try to keep that in mind. And my most-rejected story happens to be my advisor's favorite. He says to keep sending it out even knowing how many times it has been rejected. He is actively publishing all the places I want to publish. I wonder how many times he has to send out a story before getting an acceptance.

    How many places do you typically send a short story or even an agent query or whatever at once? Five? Ten? Twenty? What's the most you would fire off at once?
     
  23. Tenderiser

    Tenderiser Not a man or BayView

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2015
    Messages:
    7,471
    Likes Received:
    10,216
    Location:
    London, UK
    If you're not revising between each round, why send in rounds at all? Just fire 'em all off and try (try) to forget about it. I can only see the point in rounds if you're getting feedback and revising in between.

    I had grand ideas that I would send out queries in batches and adjust it according to the response. In the end, once I got a few requests and knew the query was passable, I started scatter-gunning queries whenever I couldn't take the empty inbox anymore.
     
    BayView likes this.
  24. deadrats

    deadrats Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2016
    Messages:
    6,086
    Likes Received:
    7,419
    I guess sending them off in rounds is more tier based than anything else. Try the big, big guys. If they reject it, try the big guys. If they reject it, try the guys. That sort of thing. I'm starting at the top and working my way down. That's what people say to do. I think it makes sense because if I had a story that was good enough to get picked up someplace awesome, I want to hear from them before I send it someplace a little less awesome (but still awesome). Since places take so long to respond, I think I can stagger them in a way that could work. Who knows? I just want to publish this shit!!! Also, because I have quite a few short stories on submission and you can only send each place one story at a time. I don't want to have no markets left for other stories or even newer stories. As it is, I'm kind of waiting for some places to reopen for submission.

    When I was querying agents, I reached out to a ton at the same time. I was only looking for one agent. With the literary journals I am trying to sell several different stories to different places at once. So, I guess it is a little different.

    But I do know what you are saying about an empty inbox. I thought I was the only one who felt that way and does that. LOL. Just wondering how many agent queries you had to send out before you landed yours, Tenderiser (or anyone). If you say three, I don't think we can be friends.
     
  25. doggiedude

    doggiedude Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2016
    Messages:
    1,411
    Likes Received:
    1,287
    Location:
    Florida, USA, Earth, The Sol System
    I just wasted a couple hours reading that site. Amazing how insane some of these people are. It makes me feel a little bit sorry for the agents.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice