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  1. Xatron
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    Xatron Contributing Member

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    Religion-Demonology

    Discussion in 'Setting Development' started by Xatron, Mar 28, 2013.

    After reading a post on another thread i have a question i want to run by you.
    Is it ok to take a segment of an existing religion and use it as part of another in a work of fiction? Like taking the demonology of the Christians and the a part of the Vedas and form a new fictional religion? I mean using actual names like Leviathan, Asmodeus, Baal, Belphegor and the like and combine it with elements of the Yajurveda or an original religion.

    Would there be a problem aside from the potential religious nuts?
     
  2. SwampDog
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    SwampDog Contributing Member

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    If you just look at Ba'al, for example, it can refer to gods, humans, or false deities. So Baal can be a noun or an adjective, and certainly the name is free to use by the world. No ownership claims there.

    Whether taking aspects of religions and combining them into another fictional one will have credence, I don't know. Suck it and see.

    You may well tread on delicate sensibilities, but then no-one has a right not to be offended. :D
     
  3. Xatron
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    Xatron Contributing Member

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    I am not talking about legal issues as no religion has a legal owner that can sue for copyright violations (no real religion at least).
     
  4. Sanjuricus
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    Sanjuricus Active Member

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    Default response: It's your story, you can do what you want with it.

    Some books to look up if you want to invesitgate further (I used to be something of an expert on this subject, have forgotten most of what I knew though!):
    Lemegeton or The lesser Key of Solomon.
    Dictionaire Infernal by de Plancey.
    Dictionary of Demons by Belanger.

    Excellent source material for a budding demonology based religion. :)
     
  5. GingerCoffee
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    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    Seems like a fine idea to me. Just be careful of any Islamic demons unless you don't mind hiring bodyguards. ;)
     
  6. Suffering-is-Beauty
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    Suffering-is-Beauty Member

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    I wouldn't think so. Just look at movies. They mix and match names. In the movie 'Gabriel' the leader of the arch demons is called Samael, which if you watch the 'Devils Advocate', Samael is another name of Lucifer. Then if you watch the whatever the movie with John Travolta in it he refers to Satan as Beelzebub. Movies do it with names all the time, and for the most part people don't even know that Lucifer was gods favorite angel or the angel of music, so they probably wouldn't even know the difference. I'm not an expert, but that's my opinion.
     
  7. Sved
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    Sved Senior Member

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    Well when I hear certain names I associate them with the mythology I know about.

    This may or may not be a problem.
     
  8. Pheonix
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    Pheonix A Singer of Space Operas and The Fourth Mod of RP Staff Contributor

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    This is exactly what people have been doing for the last *insert amount of time you believe there have been people around here* years. That is how religions are born, and old ones reinvented. Most ancient european/asian religions are based on teachings that sprung from ancient Babylon and the Euro-Indian religions. People take the pieces they like, and combine them into something that makes sense to them. If that's how it works in real life, there should be no problem doing it in fiction.
     
  9. JJ_Maxx
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    JJ_Maxx Banned

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    You can write anything you want but you do yourself a disservice to your professionalism by calling people 'religious nuts'.
     
  10. Mckk
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    Mckk Moderator Staff Supporter Contributor

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    Well, as long as you don't claim that it's an existing religion - for example, throw in Muhammad and call it Christianity or something absurd like that - I don't really see a problem. Avoid the really well known names like say, Jesus, King Solomon and King David. If you use a famous figure (esp if you use the name of the actual deity concerned), people will assume you're either trying to attack the religion or in some way represent it, and your story will at best be misunderstood and at worst you'll get loads of hate mail. Just stress you don't need really.

    If you use it well and actually make it your own, then you're doing nothing more than being inspired by other religions. If the other existing religions are not distinctively recognised, then all the more that it'll be fine.
     
  11. Xatron
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    Xatron Contributing Member

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    The term is not referring to every religious person but rather to any religious person that feels the need to impose his/her beliefs on me or anyone else. They have the right to believe what they want, but the second they try to imply that everyone is obligated to believe what they believe they automatically give me the right to call them whatever i want to.
     
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  12. JJ_Maxx
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    JJ_Maxx Banned

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    You can believe whatever you like and you have the right to call people any sordid names you desire, but as an editor or a publisher, I'm not going to give you the time of day. You're supposed to be a writer, so you can say that someone is zealous or passionate, but calling someone a derogatory name is just childish.
     
  13. Mckk
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    Mckk Moderator Staff Supporter Contributor

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    Well, stooping as low as the nuts make you just as much a nut as them. Do unto others what you'd want them do to you. Sure, perhaps those "nuts" didn't extend that courtesy to you, but it makes you the better person if you extended that courtesy to them anyway.
     
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  14. mbinks89
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    mbinks89 Active Member

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    Sure, go ahead. There may be a problem with religious nuts, but then again, you always run the risk of pissing off some whackjob.
     
  15. NewAgeFiction
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    NewAgeFiction Member

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    This is one of my favorite genres! In my opinion, yes. But it would have to include the other side of the duality also. Archangels, positive deities, etc. A struggle of good versus evil. In many of today's stories the plot and theme are almost universally dominated by the bad guy. This should not be the case. These are spiritual topics, not so much religious. The organized religions that "framework" them do not have a monopoly on existential or spiritual issues, no matter how they try/think they do.
     
  16. erebh
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    erebh Contributing Member Contributor

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    it really bugs me that muslimism is the only religion that's off the table. Especially seeing as the Qu'ran is merely a translation of the new testament.
     
  17. AVCortez
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    AVCortez Active Member

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    I introduced myself at parties as a Demonologist for about six months, so I would say I have as much right as anyone to say: Go for it.

    Really?... Simplistic look at the similarities, but OK. Check out Ross Noble, he expresses a similar sentiment in a rather amusing fashion.

    Tally-ho, old chap, I'm off before this descends into the Internet's best friend.
     
  18. Drusilla
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    Drusilla Active Member

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    The last thing "religious nuts" need is courtesy. It is such a taboo to criticize the bad sides of religion. Why is that? Politicians all over the world avoid criticizing religion in order to not offend people. The consequences of that? Child abuse goes unnoticed! Children are forced to follow their parents' strict religious belief (with the blessings of the government)! Blasphemy laws are still valid in many countries; even countries who practice freedom of speech!
    Religious rights are put before human rights and the rights of the individual (often the child).

    It is not about sinking to their levels. It is about not tolerating injustice. People should be allowed to say whatever they want about religion, just like they are allowed to criticize political movements, hobbies, lifestyles etc.
     
  19. JJ_Maxx
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    JJ_Maxx Banned

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    I find your rant full of generalizations and bias.

    People, at least in the US, do have freedom of speech. There are always going to be violations or discrepencies or 'injustices' because we are a country full of humans. But that's also why we have a justice system so there is recourse for justice through our peers.

    To say that the lack of religious scrutiny leads to child abuse is rediculous. Children are brought up the way their parents wish within the law until they are 18, then they are free to make their own decisions.

    All mckk was trying to say is that people have the right to believe in what they wish, and we should be the 'better person' and take the moral highroad no matter how unscrupulous we deem another group.

    So whether you follow the tenants of Bhuddism, Islam, Christianity, Wiccan, Homosexuality, Liberalism or Feminism or whatever, you have the right to do that. But don't fall into the trap of insults, name-calling, gossip or lying about them. If you maintain your own moral compass and always do the right thing, because it's the right thing to do, you'll be in the right. ;)

    ~ J. J.
     
  20. Drusilla
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    Drusilla Active Member

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    Children should be regarded as separate individuals, not property of the parents. I think it is morally wrong of parents to pressure their children to believe and I believe religion should be a personal matter. Children should find their own paths and choose their own religions. I don't know what it is like in your country, but the Norwegian and Swedish laws say that all people aged 15 and above have the right to choose what religious society they want to belong to/not belong to. Children from the age 12 and up have the right to be heard in court when it comes to religious matters.

    I don't think I am generalizing at all. No one should be naïve about anything. I am not talking about religious people, but religious fanatics who want to bestow their religion on others.

    I think it is morally wrong of parents to circumcise their children and force 5 year old girls to wear hijabs in the name of religion. As stated above, children are not property of the parents.
     
  21. JJ_Maxx
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    JJ_Maxx Banned

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    Then who gets to decide what the children wear? You? The government? Someone in Uganda? What makes you right and them wrong?

    The funny thing is that you look down on so-called 'religious nuts' for forcing their beliefs on others, while you condone forcing your beliefs on others. You are a hypocrite, in the purest sense of the word.

    You're saying, 'These children shouldn't be forced to wear this.' and then you would give me a list of your 'approved' clothing choices? Is that right?

    I am a conservative Christian parent of two children. I raise them according to the doctrines of my faith. I teach them to love and respect everyone. I don't allow them to watch sexually suggestive or profane television programming. I teach them not to swear, gossip or tkae the name of God in vain. I teach them to help those less fortunate and if your enemy insults you or attacks you, to bless them and pray for them.

    As a parent, I am the legal guardian for my children until they are adults. Every parent has the right to raise their children the way they see fit. You may not like it, but you should appreciate the freedom to do so.

    Your line of thinking leads to all children becoming wards of the state and raise them in some giant government 'collective'. Trust me, that doesn't end well.

    Why can't yuo embrace our differences instead of trying to stamp them out?

    ~ J. J.
     
  22. erebh
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    erebh Contributing Member Contributor

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    I don't see the connection between religious beliefs and political movements, hobbies or lifestyles.

    Religion is a crutch for billions people. A belief that there is an afterlife, a creator, something to look forward to when we do shuffle off these mortal coils. I don't think any beliver or belief system should be castagated and I don't think anybody has the right to criticize them for it.

    I think all should be discussed, with respect, even though to some of us, their beliefs may be completely alien.

    I hasten to add, all religions should be off the table for critisism except the Westboro Baptist 'Church' - they have no respect for anyone so can't look for it back.
     
  23. erebh
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    erebh Contributing Member Contributor

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    If asked at 12 what religion I chose to be I think I would have said I wanted to be a Jedi. Kids don't know their arse from their elbow at that age and the authorities in your country expect them to study various religions and choose one? Or ignore them all? Maybe Scandinavian kids are a lot more savvy at that age than I was.
     
  24. Drusilla
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    Drusilla Active Member

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    Do you think it is alright for parents to refuse to let their children have blood transfusions in the name of religion?

    Differences? I'm all for differences of the individual. Children are individuals.

    Erebh, people in Scandinavia don't have to belong to any religion at all. And they are not forced to choose a religion either. If they were christened in a church, they can choose to remain in that church their entire life. But if they don't want to belong to that church, they can freely resign from that religion when they are fifteen and be heard in court when they are twelve.

    Your view of religion is different from mine. I don't see religion any differently than political views, hobbies and lifestyles. Whether or not people believe in the afterlife and a creator is an opinion. People shouldn't be punished for criticizing opinions. Just because religion is something special and holy to the believers, doesn't mean that the non-believers see it the same way.

    People should respect others no matter what their religion is, but they shouldn't accept everything that is done in the name of religion.
     
  25. erebh
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    erebh Contributing Member Contributor

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    That's when the laws of the nation come in. I think it was a scientologist in Ireland who's child needed a blood transfusion. The parents refused. The law stepped in, took the parents out of the equation and ordered the procedure.


    I believe you, not sure if you got my point though. I merely said at 12 most kids can't remember where they left their toys let alone make possibly life altering decisions on religion. Like I said, maybe your kids are just way clevererererer than mine :)
     
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