1. Raven
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    Raven Banned

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    Religion Is It Mankinds Ultimate Weakness.

    Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by Raven, Oct 26, 2006.

    Maybe Religion is one of mankinds basic impulse's the need to believe in another higher order.
    Is faith like a vaccum, sucking up credulity in a frantic effort to fill an otherwise empty void perhaps it is a part of mankinds genetic charactor to need to hunger for a spiritual solice.
    It is a subject that debates a great many arguements. (If the almighty God does exist then the Devil has to exist.)

    Is it really necessary for humanity to worship a higher being or is it because the image of God gives mankind hope in death.



    ~Raven.
     
  2. IndianaJoan
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    IndianaJoan Contributing Member

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    I believe that for many people it fills a void in an otherwise seemingly unfulfilling life.

    Do I believe in God? yes..without a doubt.
    Do I believe in what religious fundamentalism has done to the US? No.

    The very message of God is about tolerance and acceptance. Free will and choice. But somehow, the american people have taken it upon themselves to be the judge of what is "acceptable" and what is not.

    More and more I find myself disgusted by the lawmakers who attempt to pass laws or restrict priveledges based on their own religious beliefs, i.e. homosexuality, abortion. Whatever happened to seperation of church and state?

    I am content with people that represent their faith and do it well. BUT representing faith in essence means..live your life by the rules of your faith. This DOES NOT INCLUDE extraneous attempts to thwart me from following a path that does not fit into your rules of your faith.

    If u want to worship , fine. My beef is when having a religion for some people means they have to convert everyone to their way of thinking.
     
  3. Laimtoe
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    Laimtoe Senior Member

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    I wouldn't say Religion is a weakness.

    I think most religious people are insane though... only because I keep running accross some rather arrogant or blatantly insulting or extriemist religious freaks.

    But Religion is a good thing, when it's not taken to extriemes.

    I don't believe in God, but sinse god is unprovable it's also impossible to disprove him.

    The question is: "What is profe?"

    What will prove god or disprove god? What classifies God and what classifies profe?

    Is parting the red sea proof? Or is there a perfectly logical reason behind it?... or is it a mixture of both?

    Is a majicians tricks godly, or are they merely tricks? What if the majician perminently moves a mountain, or a building?

    Whatever -- I'm somewhat blabbing off... The thing of the matter is, I don't want to beleive in god, and I don't beleive in god -- HOWEVER, it's human nature to beleive in the cause of nature. They theorize, philosophise, and speculate as to what was the cause of everything.

    It doesn't matter if it's dependant on God or not. It's still relies on faith, because essentailly -- we just don't know. If you come up with a theory and believe in that theory then you are exercizing faith. Faith is not exclusive only to the God-club.

    Faith is a beleif in thing unproven (go to any dictionary, it'll say that).

    Religion: a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects.

    Essentially Religion has nothing to do with God. It's most commonly the belief in God, but it's not of god.

    So if you believe in something that's unproven, hence requires faith, then you're a religion unto your own self -- regardless of if it has anything to do with God.

    People need to realize that there is no law set that says that there is a seperation of Church and State. I don't see why people put so much stock into this. It was only a suggestion by ONE of the framers and it was discareded.

    Religion doesn't necessarily have anything to do with god, so why is there a need to incorperate a seperation -- granted, I don't believe that there should be a merging of church and state and have the pope be the president of a Catholic US American sector -- but I see no problem of incorporating religious ideas in government so long as there is a freedom OF religion... not a freedom FROM religion.

    To say that there's freedom FROM religion is like saying that we have Freedom FROM speech (which defeats the purpose of FREEDOM OF SPEECH)... which is actually being incorporated... like absolutely no prayer or oportunities to pray in schools... that's just stupid... not even a momment of silence is granted to people because "people could pray"... the fact of the matter is, hampering of people's rights goes both ways.

    Religoius theology can depict a generic law -- so long as the law doesn't enforce a specific religion.

    But people tend to seperate church and state to the point to where there is no room for religion in the country... and that's a hampering on rights.

    There's a ballance between the two... and all of this is stated by a person that doesn't believe in god. lol.
     
  4. Felony
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    Felony Contributing Member

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    Religion is the governments way of twisting our mids stealing our hard earned money and then watch us die fighting for "holy ground"...cuz who really gives a crap on what god lived where. the world is the same everywhere. Religion just binds you to more laws and other superstions. Religion will one day tear apart our country. MARK MY WORDS!!!!
     
  5. Laimtoe
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    Laimtoe Senior Member

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    Well... it kind of goes both ways, in my opinion -- religion can tear the country apart -- but the absolute removal of religion will tear it apart as well.

    What good is a country if its culture is destroyed from internal means?
     
  6. Hellbent
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    Hellbent Senior Member

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    Religion is for the damaged. People without family or friends. People who are scared.

    Like when I got into my car accident and was in the hospital for 2 whole weeks (lost a lot of blood) I didn't need this God person or that dead guy or some statue to give me strength, (but I'm a really strong man, I can bench press like 27 lbs, yeah and I'm not afraid of death either, plus I'm in a gang and there's no girls allowed so there) all I needed was my family to stop by and cheer me up- and of course doctors and nurses.

    But see, people help people out, not faith or religion. How does any of that pay the bills? If you got into a bind and needed some money, you wouldn't go to church and ask for money or pray for it would you? I guess if you didn't have any friends or relatives then you might.

    But one of the things I hate the most is when people mistake actions and reactions for Miracles or acts of god, christ...whoever. Like when people say they wouldn't be where they are today without the help of Jesus Christ- there's a lot of this going on in professional fighting. And I say, no, you worked your ass off training every day and had OTHER PEOPLE help you out. Christ didn't come in and teach you how to submit somebody.

    So then they're saying that the only way they got through their days was knowing that Christ/God was by their side...and that's' just...not only is that crazy, but it's arrogant. If J.C. was real he wouldn't assist just one man to beat up another man just because he's weak on the inside (that's unfair), he'd come back and set everything right all around the world.

    That would be (censored) up though- he'd help somebody win a sports trophy but won't help the abused and sick.
     
  7. Mercury
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    Mercury Active Member

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    I don't think, as the original poster said, that religious faith is part of our genetic make-up. I simply think we havn't moved as far from our primitive early cultural heritage as much as we'd like to think.

    If we look back to the roots of spirituality and faith, it all stems from one thing: fear of death. Consider how this dominated early civilisation, from grave goods in the stone age to bronze age pyramids and temples.

    We have always been desperate to believe in the metaphysical, that there is more to this existence than mere physical existence, and that it will be our salvation after death. When a majority of a culture is so desperate to have a faith like this, they can be easily manipulated by social controls. That's where religion steps in.

    Some have said that religion has provided a valuable moral yardstick for our society. that may have been true in the past, but a moral yardstick prevents the development of a society through time. For example, would we really want to be restricted to, say, victorian values towards sexual morality?
     
  8. Felony
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    Felony Contributing Member

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    but yet how many of you have a religion and how did you become to practice it.
     
  9. The Freshmaker
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    The Freshmaker <insert obscure pop culture reference> Contributor

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    Mankind's ultimate weakness? Hmmm...

    I do believe that religion should be obsolete by now. The idea of gods and a higher power began as man's way of explaining phenomena he didn't understand. To more primitive man, the seasons came and went because one god or another made it so. Now we know that it's simple laws of physics that keep out planet revolving around the sun, so we don't need that particular god anymore.

    Today we do the same thing. We don't understand what happens when we die, so we have the idea of god. The idea of god also gives us security. No one wants to believe that our existence is a brief, inaudible sigh in the universe. We want to have a purpose, we want to be special. We used to believe that the universe revolved around the earth, until people like Nicholas Copernicus, Galileo, and Johanes Kepler helped to prove that the earth and all the other planets revolved around the sun. That gives an idea of the strength of the human desire to be unique and special.

    I do think that we should move on. I think mankind could do much more constructive things outside the box of organized religion. Religion isn't altogether bad, though. A lot of the doctrine is very good, and necessary for a decent life. However, the worship part seems totally unnecessary to me.
     
  10. xxkozxx
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    xxkozxx Active Member

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    I think humanity as a whole needs to have faith in something that they can't control. Religion gives them the outlet to do so.

    Religion is only a crutch or for the weak if they take its intentions, just as with anything else, and bastardize it to fit their own needs and desires. Generally this happens with extremists.

    There is, however, something to be admired from strongly religious people. They have an insatiable will power to sustain.

    Organized religion is just another way for mankind to create a commonality in which to draw humanity to a common watering hole.
     
  11. Felony
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    Felony Contributing Member

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    But the will power will be useless when they die and are dissapointed ( if you can be dissappionted when your dead) that nothin was there. I Think it as the governments way of taking your money your family and your life....all the while making you believe in something that may not be true.
     
  12. The Freshmaker
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    The Freshmaker <insert obscure pop culture reference> Contributor

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    I think the bigger question is, is religion necessary? I can understand the appeal in believing very strongly in something. Hell, I was a very devout Christian for a long time. But I think I have lost the capacity to believe strongly in anything. I have to ask questions, I have to be skeptical, and I have to come to a logical conclusion rather than a faith-based one. In a sense, it is sad. But I've always thought it was better to question authority than to take authority's word for it.

    So, is it necessary? What do we need religion for? I guess this leads to questions of whether or not man can be "good" without guidance. Well, man did create religion, so there has to be some good in him to begin with.

    I could go on and on, but I'm going to stop there for now. I may continue tomorrow.
     
  13. Daniel
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    Daniel I'm sure you've heard the rumors. Founder Staff Contributor

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    The message of God... where? The Bible? the Koran? Please be more specific.

    Do you even know what you mean when you say tolerance?

    What if such was the will of God based on his creation of a moral law?

    Do you realize that by telling me not to try to "convert" people to my way of thinking YOU are trying to convert ME to your way of thinking? oooh.
     
  14. Felony
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    Felony Contributing Member

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    LMAO!!!!!!
    I only hate when people's idea of conversion are (like the morman's in my area) Knock on your door and ask for money. I don't think they believe in this thing called a job.
     
  15. Daniel
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    Daniel I'm sure you've heard the rumors. Founder Staff Contributor

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    I have family. I have friends. Much of Christianity (more specifically) is based strongly on family and friends. Moreover, I've found that Christians are some of the least scared people I've ever met. For the most part, Christian's aren't scared of death. They know what they believe, and the know what's coming.

    What if you only think you didn't don't need him? I know of a lot of times I've thought I didn't need something when I really did.

    You really don't know what you're talking about. I've heard countless stories from friends, peers, and family members of how they prayed for God to provide (be it money, food, or something else) and he did. No one expects to wake up with $2,000 under their pillow, but he works through people. He does provide.

    Perhaps without Christ they wouldn't have had the will or motivation or assurance to to persevere.
     
  16. Daniel
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    Daniel I'm sure you've heard the rumors. Founder Staff Contributor

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    Religion without truth is foolish. If there is no God, then there is no point. But... if there is a God, you have eternity at stake. You have free will. You have a moral obligation of right and wrong.

    I do agree that blind faith is not good. But you can come to belief in God (in my case, the Christian view of God) based on fact. Other things, such as the big bang, require just as much faith.

    How you ever heard of Josh McDowell?
     
  17. Daniel
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    Daniel I'm sure you've heard the rumors. Founder Staff Contributor

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    Do they really ask for money? hmm...

    Well, I do admire their devotion.
     
  18. Felony
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    Felony Contributing Member

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    I think It's sorta rude cuz I mooch of my parents still and I can barely make a livin on my own. But then again No1 will hire me for a job becuase They think I'm a teenger. They never seem to see the age 20 written on the resume. So I really can't tell them to get a job either. Hmmm devotion that's maybe what you could say I admire...and maybe their braveness too.
     
  19. The Freshmaker
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    The Freshmaker <insert obscure pop culture reference> Contributor

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    I think that that is exactly why people cling to religion: it's much more comforting to believe that we were purposefully created. No one really wants to believe that we were cosmic coincidence.

    As I mentioned earlier, I was a very devout Christian for a long time. But when I came out of my shell and started exploring my options, I found that there were more reasons for me to believe in the absence of God, rather than the presence of one. No amount of reading my Bible, or conversing with Christians could convince me otherwise. So here I am.

    And no, I haven't.
     
  20. Daniel
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    Daniel I'm sure you've heard the rumors. Founder Staff Contributor

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    For some I'm sure it is. Do you believe you were a cosmic coincidence?

    I'm not convinced a Christian can actually lose salvation... I'm not convinced you were a Christian in the first place. What made you think you were - and was there any one thing that converted your mindset?

    Josh McDowell was an extreme skeptic who basically hated Christianity. In his quest to prove it he traced it back to its roots only to become a Christain basedon the overwhelming evidence and historic account.

    My point in mentioning it is that there is sufficient evidence if you're willing to seek it.
     
  21. The Freshmaker
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    The Freshmaker <insert obscure pop culture reference> Contributor

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    For the time being, yes.



    I was raised Catholic, and in 8th grade started going to a Protestant school. I did the whole born-again thing. I really believed it. I prayed every day, I went to church every Sunday. I helped start my church's youth program. I read my Bible from cover to cover. I was baptised into the church at the age of 13. Our school held weekly chapel services, which I loved going to. I loved the singing and the worshipping, and just the feeling of giving it all to god. Me and a few of my friends used to eat lunch every day in the campus pastor's office. Sometimes now, I wonder, did I really believe it even then? And I know I did. There wasn't really one moment that made me stop believing. It happened over the course of a couple years. I don't know that I'm right, though I suspect that I'm close. I'd much rather be wrong and live my life in a way that I find fulfilling, than to live it in a box the way that most Christians would expect me to.



    I don't hate Christianity. I respect it. I actually like going to church. Catholic services are lovely, and one of the things I want most in the world is to go see the old Gothic cathedrals in Europe.

    I have talked to many many Christians. I have read and re-read my Bible. And there are too many holes in the doctrine for me to find it believable anymore. Maybe it's a curse, but I go on logic, not on faith or emotion. And unless someone can prove to me logically that there is a reason to believe in God, I don't see myself turning back to religion anytime soon.
     

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