1. ~*Danni*~
    Offline

    ~*Danni*~ New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2011
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    0

    Review System....

    Discussion in 'Support & Feedback' started by ~*Danni*~, Jan 11, 2011.

    Hi Everyone :)

    I joined this forum with the hope of gaining more experience in the art of Writing, as well as to hopefully recieve some useful advice from accomplished Authors etc.
    However, this silly system that requires 2 'constructive' reviews before you can post a piece of YOUR OWN WORK is ridiculous!! :confused:
    The message I recieved, though I had given reviews to the best of my ability (I joined this forum in order to learn more about writing, I am not an accomplished Author, yet), was quite frankly rather impolite and patronising.
    Other forums I use allow freedom to post your opinions, if they are not liked they recieve negative reputation and should a person recieve a certain amount of negative reputation they are temporarliy banned from using the forum - a much better way of managing it.
    Of course, the creators of this forum want to keep it all formal, and prim and proper, however, by hindering people through being overly fussy about reviews does not appear to be doing this forum any favours - if you compare the members' list to other forums I use, this one's virtually not in use :rolleyes:

    Please take my suggestions into consideration, as then perhaps you may find a sudden surge of popularity :)

    All the Best, ~*Danni*~
     
  2. Elgaisma
    Offline

    Elgaisma Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2010
    Messages:
    5,337
    Likes Received:
    92
    This is one rule I am very much in favour of actually don't see why I should spend time giving constructive reviews to people who are unwilling to do it for me.

    You might be a new writer but I am guessing you are a not a new reader. Use your reading skills to say what you like, and what you would like to see change that is all a constructive review is. Use examples from the text as that is helpful.

    I personally am 100% behind this rule because it encourages reviews and means writing can improve. If you improve your own reviewing, you will improve your own editing abilities and your own writing improves.
     
  3. Banzai
    Offline

    Banzai One-time Mod, but on the road to recovery Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2007
    Messages:
    12,871
    Likes Received:
    150
    Location:
    Reading, UK
    I fear that you've missed the point of the system, ~*Danni*~.

    The review requirements system has a two-pronged purpose. Firstly and most obviously (though, actually, secondary in importance) it is to ensure that all members contribute. A great many members who fall foul of the requirement are in fact only interested in getting quick feedback on their own work, and have no interest in repaying that benefit. Prior to the imposition of this system the review room was in a situation where a few regular members were contributing the only reviews. This requirement is aimed at ensuring that the feedback section of the forum remains fair.

    However, the second and most important element of it, is that editing is a key part of being a writer. The Review Room is a workshop-style area, and it is intended that members learn as much from reviewing the work of others as they do from their own work receiving feedback. You claim that you are not an "accomplished author", and whilst I accept this, I do not see how it prevents you from learning necessary editing skills which can then be turned on your own work.

    I think, honestly, if you compare this forum in terms of membership numbers, then others will come out ahead as you have suggested. But if you look at the numbers of "cut and run" members, I think it will show that our policy does, indeed, pay dividends.
     
  4. Banzai
    Offline

    Banzai One-time Mod, but on the road to recovery Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2007
    Messages:
    12,871
    Likes Received:
    150
    Location:
    Reading, UK
    Also, if you found the closing message posted on your thread rather impersonal, I apologise. Myself and the other moderators use template posts, largely to save time. No offence is meant by them, it is simply a reflection of the number of members who try to get around the requirements with minimal, non-qualifying reviews.
     
  5. Zomgbees
    Offline

    Zomgbees New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2011
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    0
    I have to agree about the impersonal tone in the generic "template post," personally I find it distasteful and after reviewing two songs and giving a good amount of feedback on both, then posting my first song and being locked with a simple brisk tap of ctrl v (or apple v) was pretty unprofessional in my opinion, especially without doing your homework and seeing the two posts I made. If they were not up to status quo you could have at least told me why and after reading and rereading the constructive critiques thread I still find that my posts were constructive. Due to this; you will probably not see me near this site again.




    I would like my song thread removed permanently.
     
  6. Elgaisma
    Offline

    Elgaisma Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2010
    Messages:
    5,337
    Likes Received:
    92
    Bit much to expect a volunteer doing you a service to review your rewviewing. They are human of course they are going to make error from time to time.

    Yes I do agree the standard posts are a bit off putting but some people just write that way.
     
  7. Banzai
    Offline

    Banzai One-time Mod, but on the road to recovery Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2007
    Messages:
    12,871
    Likes Received:
    150
    Location:
    Reading, UK
    The standard posts are never going to be warm and cuddly, because they are not tailored to the specific member, or to the specific circumstances of the thread being locked. I'm sorry that some of you don't like them, but I really don't have time to sit and type out a personal essay on why a member hasn't met the requirements, every time I enforce the rules. The moderators actually do have lives outside this place, and volunteer to moderate it in our spare time. Some time saving methods are going to have to be utilised in order to actually have the time to run this place.

    For those complaining that it's not a very nice welcome to the forums, maybe you should consider that it is not intended that the Review Room be your first destination. If new members took the time to post an introduction thread in the new members forum, and looked around the site before trying to post their work for feedback, then they'd get a better feel for what is required and how the site works. The template post would, then, not be the first welcome they received.

    And as for your personal situation Zomgbies, I've replied to your PM and explained specifically what the problem with your reviews was. I'm certainly not going to argue the toss about it with you in public forum.
     
  8. Zomgbees
    Offline

    Zomgbees New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2011
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    0
    Maybe you all could just learn how to use vB and post a redirect to all new members strait into the welcome and introduction section.
     
  9. hiddennovelist
    Offline

    hiddennovelist Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2009
    Messages:
    10,256
    Likes Received:
    161
    Location:
    Fabulous Sin City
    Or perhaps new members could read the rules and actually look around the forum to see how things are run prior to just skipping in and immediately trying to post their writing? Most of the new members who do that seem to navigate the site pretty successfully with minimal complaints...
     
    1 person likes this.
  10. VM80
    Offline

    VM80 Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2010
    Messages:
    1,211
    Likes Received:
    43
    Location:
    UK
    Whilst I think the template posts are not all that nice (by their very nature of being impersonal), I agree with the above as well.

    Any forum I join, I always try and get a feel for the place and look around.

    In this case I'm not really only here to post my work, actually I haven't posted anything for review.

    I'd rather join some of the discussions at the moment, hopefully offer some advice and learn new things in the process. :)
     
  11. Cogito
    Offline

    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    May 19, 2007
    Messages:
    35,935
    Likes Received:
    2,043
    Location:
    Massachusetts, USA
    Quite frankly, the majority of Review Room threads that get closed deserve no better than a template. They are from new members who never bothered to check the site rules, even after they are blocked from posting their writing on their first attempt.

    The moderators don't have the time to give a "personal touch" to every thread that gets closed in this way. It may seem unfair to those who are genuinely confused about the reasons for the restrictions, but the templates are worded as best they can to cover the full range of situations.

    Face the facts. If you are going to be a writer, you'll get many more rejections with far less explanation - if you get any response at all.
     
    1 person likes this.
  12. Wreybies
    Offline

    Wreybies The Ops Pops Operations Manager Staff Contest Administrator Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    May 1, 2008
    Messages:
    18,834
    Likes Received:
    10,013
    Location:
    Puerto Rico
    Does it occur to you, Zomgee, that I might have a job, a spouse, a life? I don't live within the confines of this forum. I don't come awake when you sign and in and then deactivate when you sign out. As Elgaisma has already made note, we are here voluntarily. There is no pay. The template posts are not intended to coddle you. They are a reprimand of sorts for not having read the rules prior. They are also intended to make sure that all of the important and pertinent information is made clear, nothing forgotten. It is not lassitude. It is efficiency. Each of the mods has his/her own template that they crafted. And we have a philosophy here that the rules apply to all, not just to some.

    Again, I don't live within VB, Tronlike. We don't delete posts unless they violate rules, not even if the member is banned. We are not about to open that floodgate.
     
    1 person likes this.
  13. thenewpeter
    Offline

    thenewpeter Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2010
    Messages:
    142
    Likes Received:
    3
    Although it is a little anoying that you can give 2 reviews and still get your thread locked, I'm still for this rule. Although, it does mean that theres a much lower flow of content, I personly don't like reviewing something unless it intrests me, so it leaves me stuck waiting for something I'd like to read to come along.
     
  14. Wreybies
    Offline

    Wreybies The Ops Pops Operations Manager Staff Contest Administrator Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    May 1, 2008
    Messages:
    18,834
    Likes Received:
    10,013
    Location:
    Puerto Rico
    There is an AMAZING stockpile of items to be reviewed in this forum. You are free to review older works at your liesure. We do not penalize here at all for the act threadchaeology.

    The reason for this is simple.

    The forum is based on the idea that you improve as a writer through the act of reviewing, not by getting reviewed. You sharpen your critical eye through reviewing and then can use that newly sharpened, more discerning eye when go back to your own work.
     
  15. Banzai
    Offline

    Banzai One-time Mod, but on the road to recovery Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2007
    Messages:
    12,871
    Likes Received:
    150
    Location:
    Reading, UK
    This!

    THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS!

    I'm in the final year of a law degree, which will probably determine the rest of my life. I'm happy to do my duties as a moderator at the same time, but what I'm not happy to do is to make extra work for myself nannying newbies who can't be arsed to read the ****ing rules and abide by them. They are there for a reason, and the mere fact that they may inconvenience you does not mean that they are wrong or need to be changed.
     
  16. Jonalexher
    Offline

    Jonalexher Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2010
    Messages:
    219
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    California
    It's a perfectly fair system. If we didn't have this system, it would go something like this:

    Poster A: Guys! just uploaded my first short story, please review! :D

    Poster B: Alright, I'll review it some day when I have time:] oh btw, I posted one too, check it out please!

    Poster C: Same here, read mine!


    See what would happen? Nobody would care. They would just post their stuff, not caring about other people's stuff.
     
  17. Elgaisma
    Offline

    Elgaisma Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2010
    Messages:
    5,337
    Likes Received:
    92
    Precisely Jonalexher - why should I review someones work if they don't look at mine etc I have taken to putting up early drafts to make it easier for people to pick away at. As it took me a couple of months after joining to post because of it.

    I do appreciate the help it gives me in
    A) I know what doesn't need over editing
    B) I know what areas people on the site are good at so I can go to someone and ask for help to improve an area of my work. I knew precisely who would be great at a difficult scene, dialogue, punctuation, fight scenes, romance, battles etc. Although at this rate my acknowledgement page is gonna be full :)
    C) Helps me edit my own work better.
    D) Introduces me to new writers lol
     
  18. Thanshin
    Offline

    Thanshin Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2010
    Messages:
    564
    Likes Received:
    13
    Location:
    Spain
    It's much simpler than you make it sound. Making it look deep and complex only promotes this kind of debates.

    The core of it is that most people like being read and reviewed and people on this forum decided they only wanted to read and review other people's work if those people were willing to do the same. It's a pretty simple trade that could maybe be expressed in less words to avoid confusion.

    Some newly arrived didn't read the rules before posting their story? It's ok just lock and reply with a much simpler text:

    "In this forum you must help at least two other people with constructive reviews before asking for constructive reviews from other people.

    If you think you can't do a constructive review you can either learn to do so in our forum on precisely that topic [link], or leave and come back when you've learned."

    If you feel especially warm and fuzzy, you can add: "We sincerely hope you make an effort to give those constructive reviews so we have a chance to read and help you with your own work."
     
  19. WastelandSurvivor
    Offline

    WastelandSurvivor Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2011
    Messages:
    84
    Likes Received:
    5
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    I have reviewed three or four pieces of work so far, and I have yet to post any of my own work for review, so personally I do not have any problem with this rule. I feel it promotes collaboration, participation and critical thinking. My only hope is that the reviews I have posted are seen to be adequate and helpful.
     
  20. mammamaia
    Offline

    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2006
    Messages:
    19,316
    Likes Received:
    1,014
    Location:
    Coquille, Oregon
    this is still by far the absolute best site for aspiring writers on the internet!

    those who don't like the way it's run do not have a gun at their heads forcing them to be here... they're free to try to find another site out there as good as this one, where they can be coddled and cosseted to their complaining heart's content [good luck finding same!]...
     
    1 person likes this.
  21. jo spumoni
    Offline

    jo spumoni Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2010
    Messages:
    392
    Likes Received:
    20
    Location:
    La Jolla, CA (and Mission Viejo, CA, during the su
    I wholeheartedly agree. And I definitely think we should have to review at least 2 works before posting. However, I would like to point out that the statement, while definitely true in my experience with the internet, is not really an argument. I say this because every time I bring up a point about possibly changing the rules, that's the comment I invariably get: this is the best site, so leave it alone. Well, just because it is the "best" doesn't mean it can't improve, and thus doesn't mean we should just throw out every suggestion.

    In this case, I happen to agree: the two-review policy--and I mean two thorough reviews--is in place for a very good reason and should remain in place. Nonetheless, I think feedback does have an important place on this site and should be respected, regardless of how this site compares to other writing sites.
     
  22. Reggie
    Offline

    Reggie I Like 'Em hot "N Spicy Contributor

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2010
    Messages:
    680
    Likes Received:
    22
    Location:
    USA
    At first, I did not think this site was good, and I felt that obtaining research on my questions from forums was boring and it would not solve my problem. But then I looked through a lot of what people posted on here; it seemed to be a good deal of registering to the forums after all when I found other information on this site about writing other particular aspects of something rather than just looking for answers to my own questions. I was thrilled to see some possible changes to my writing after I found this site and read some of its information on it. In fact, this is the first forum I ever actually enjoyed. Other forums are okay, but they do not seem to interest me at all. Maybe it is because the subject of the forum is not an interest to me, rather than just the forum itself.
     
  23. TokyoVigilante
    Offline

    TokyoVigilante Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2010
    Messages:
    73
    Likes Received:
    5
    Location:
    Canada
    I joined because of the review system. I knew that when/if I posted something it would be reviewed almost certainly by people genuinely interested in the craft of writing.

    If I wanted to hear "Good job, I liked it. Keep it up" I would just post on DeviantART.
     
  24. The Degenerate
    Offline

    The Degenerate Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2011
    Messages:
    197
    Likes Received:
    11
    Location:
    New Jersey
    This is pretty standard in any workshop, live or on the internet. The dynamic works because every person has their story viewed and critiqued in turn.

    It's probably even worse on the internet, because you have people who join, post their story for feedback, and then disappear.
     
  25. thenewpeter
    Offline

    thenewpeter Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2010
    Messages:
    142
    Likes Received:
    3
    In that case, me thinks I'm gonna start digging :p.
     

Share This Page