Morrissey doesn't seem to agree. He released a scathing letter, although I wish he'd put in more specifics. A good take on the danger of celebrating her death is here: http://www.alternet.org/speakeasy/alyssa-figueroa/danger-demonizing-margaret-thatcher
I'm sure she was called a lot of things Many dictators wouldn't compromise, or budge an inch There was celebrations when Saddam was hung. 10 years on and the Iraqis wish they had him back. As you well know, history is written by the Victors. So sid the allied celebrations at the end of WWII undo any of the damage done? Unfortunately a lot of her victims are not here to celebrate. And as for this "poor old woman with dimentia" Her creator will be the ultimate judge. And how do you know her political demise wasn't celebrated in 1990? I know in Ireland it was! Unpopular? She won 3 elections and her party won 2 more straight after that. Not sure who this is aimed at but I didn't see anyone celebrating here.
Dude, check out yesterday's English Daily Mirror - you won't need to buy, just look at the front page headline
Her hero and role model was Churchill I thought we established the comparison lay in the street celebrations [QUOTE} This is something I can't stand about people jumping on this anti-Thatcher bandwagon. It's making her seem worse than she really was. it's making her seem like a devil, and she just wasn't. [/QUOTE] Been on her case since the early 80s... Are we bringing in our own thoughts and conclusions here or just talking cold facts because I'm sure a lot of people have their own ideas on whether she was devil-like or not I'm sure you do, how many mines did she close in the North East? I may be wrong but I think just about none but go a little bit south to Yorkshire and talk to the miners that still haven't worked a day since the collieries closed. A good day to go would be Wednesday and rightly or wrongly the pubs will be packed. I could copy and paste a quote from Chris Kitchen here (for those who don't know his name he is the General Secretary for the British Miners) but he can be googled for those who really want to know what he said. We'll keep this thread respectful.
Not sure which excerts you saw Liz but his views on the Belgrano are pretty specific - http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/04/08/morrissey-thatcher-was-a-terror-without-an-atom-of-humanity.html The guy makes some good points, should anyone's death ever be celebrated? street parties are a bit over the top but what else do these celebrations say - an end to her policies? A message to current and future law makers / politicians or are they actually waiting to dance on her grave? When you look at the some of the faces in the pictures of London's parties, most of them weren't even born when she was in power - what exactly are they rousing about?
One of my personal heroes is Dante, and I'm an Atheist. Sorry, I just don't see the connection here. Since we are comparing a supporter of laissez-faire capitalism to a national socialist. I can't say I find this comparison very meaningful. All of the coal mines in my area were shut down, the economy was almost ruined in Northumbria, but the people who used to be miners became fishermen, or shop assistants, or joined the police or prison service, or went to college and learned a trade. So is there is a large group of people out there who I'm not aware of, and who haven't been able to find a job in 20 years?
Cor, you're sweating Erebh. I keep deleting bombs to the mix. I'm sure you got yourself in one of these corners before? Oh yeah, football coaching is like writing a novel. Love it. Like yourself, recall the bile from adolescence when she was the monstrous figurehead. I think this accounts for much of the 'confusion.' Nazis aside, I read some of the Morrissey and thought he was like so many H o Lords benchers with his squib attack. Old popstars eh, disappointing. Still reckon from youth perspective 'the Smiths' quintessential Thatcher album. The 'Smalltown Boy' Bronski Beat video for the pictures.
You know what they say about bringing comparisons with Hitler or the Nazi regime into a discussion. Good way to ensure no one takes your position seriously. But enough on that. I'm from the other side of the Pond, so to me, Margaret Thatcher was just a remarkable leader. That pretty much guarantees both hatred and adoration from her countrymen.
you don't see the connection between 2 conservative PMs of Britain? the poster said she was not a traditional tory but her hero and role model was a traditional tory - you still don't see the connection? Who is the Nationalist Socialist you are comparing? Talk to Chris Kitchen or watch him on channel4 - he's been quite vociferous about the 40 and 50 year old men who worked in the mines all their lives who when the mines closed were considered too old to retrain, too inexperienced for other work and in their own words were left on the slagheap.
sweating? not so much but from the corner I get the best view - my attackers only see me! And the odds favor me - there are only about 10 of you not sure I ever said coaching was like writing a novel so maybe scroll back there a bit.... and no idea what your third paragraph is about but loving it too!
totally agree - i think the poor canaries had the shortest straw though... reminds me of a joke I saw last night Thatcher arrives in Hell. Satan welcomes her. Thatcher explodes "Why is this pit still open?" Thats just a little injection of humour by the way before anyone rounds on me for it
What I'd really like more specific information on is: "She hated feminists even though it was largely due to the progression of the women's movement that the British people allowed themselves to accept that a prime minister could actually be female. But because of Thatcher, there will never again be another woman in power in British politics, and rather than opening that particular door for other women, she closed it." I'm curious about his assertion that there will never again be another woman in power. I'm not familiar with her specific policies with respect to women, and I don't know what she did that could prevent another woman from being in power. Even here in the U.S., we've endured some pretty awful leaders, and there are constant attacks on women's rights, we've got a real possibility of a woman becoming president in a few years. Given that there have been women leaders of many other countries, I question his assertion that it is now essentially impossible in Britain, and specifically due to Margaret Thatcher.
Churchill also was a member of the Labour Party, in fact, according to every biography I've heard of that comes from a neutral position he seems like something of a political opportunist. Maybe a good man in hindsight, and right, but an opportunist. Thatcher was a supporter of laissez-faire capitalism, not Churchill's State Capitalism. The two are kind of different. Considering that men in my region managed to pick themselves up I'm not sure why those couldn't personally. By the way, I've genuinely not heard about this sort of thing happening, but I'd be utterly amazed that there was nothing these men could do to help themselves.
Well in short, in her 11 years at the helm she only promoted one women to a ministerial post which some say was her duty to promote more women into high posts; that it was up to her to show the glass ceiling was well and truely smashed but she destroyed any chance by publicly saying that women just weren't up to the task. Glenda Jackson (MP) said today "She may have been born wityh female genitalia but she wasn't a woman and never came close to being a lady" http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2306997/Margaret-Thatcher-woman-terms-claims-Labour-MP-Glenda-Jackson-bitter-attack-Premiers-memory.html Morrissey said she gave women politicians a bad name to such an effect that not another will ever being taken seriously again
I'm guessing your the guy hiding behind the bar in a John Wayne type all-out bar brawl, occasionally rising to lean across the counter to smash your empty bottle over the head of someone already dazed...
Can we leave the rancor and personal barbs and out of this discussion please? Or do you WANT the thread shut down?
It seems to me that this position is more sexist than what Thatcher may have done. Basing the opinion of all women on a single woman would be ridiculous. It would be just as ridiculous to extrapolate one's opinion of a single man to all men. Are there really no good women political leaders in the pipeline over there?
Maybe he was but I can't find any links to Churchill being a fully paid up member of Labour although he did form or was part of a couple of coalitions but as you say an out and out opportunist and very centre - like Tory Blair I suppose. Obviously I can't speak for them either but you have to remember a lot of those guys left school uneducated, illiterate and went straight into the mines for 10 - 12 hours a day - could you imagine these guys admitting they couldn't read and applying for college courses or for retraining as barristas in a capitalist Starbucks? Obviously you'd take your hat off to the guys that did but a lot didn't.
That is true. And contrary to how I might be coming across I'm not some Mr Moneybags, Atlas Shrugged reading, elitist asshat. I'm well aware people have limitations they find hard to get around. I just don't share in this anti-Thatcher feeling like most people my age. For the record I'm only 23, I didn't even exist during Thatcher's government.
Obviously totally sexist from Morrissey in a world full of sexism - the point was, she did womankind no favours. And when she came out (in a skirt) and said women weren't up to politics, spoke volumes. Unlike America, politics in Ireland and the UK is run completely differently. Mere mortals here don't vote for the party leader. The party puts forward the candidate and we vote for the party. We have no say in who runs. In a political world of men, women rarely get the chance to proceed. I'm not sure many women have been in high ministerial posts since Thatcher but when they do "get in" they seem to be too busy competing with men in pissing contests to actually further more women in the game.
23? You were born the year they ousted her? Maybe you should google some of her policies on the miners, trade unions, riots, Northern Ireland conflict, pinochet, malvinas, aparthied, live aid being taxed, stolen baby milk, poll tax - see how she gulfed the haves and have-nots. She made a ton of people rich, rich beyond their dreams but a lot more have never recovered.
