Say what? A sequel to TKAM?

Discussion in 'Discussion of Published Works' started by thirdwind, Feb 3, 2015.

  1. Selbbin

    Selbbin The Moderating Cat Staff Contributor Contest Winner 2023

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    As in, it's illogical?

    Although one of the definitions of logic is: reason or sound judgment in utterances or actions.
     
  2. 123456789

    123456789 Contributor Contributor

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    Then I stand corrected.
     
  3. Selbbin

    Selbbin The Moderating Cat Staff Contributor Contest Winner 2023

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    The story of my life. :)
     
  4. edamame

    edamame Contributor Contributor

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    Has anyone read the book yet and can they confirm if it reads like an earlier draft of TKAM or is it legitimately another novel?

    There's this Op-Ed in the NY Times that says it's a fraud and a money grab. Harper insisted she would never publish another novel after TKAM but her new protector brought this "discovered" book to publication under suspicious circumstances.
     
  5. thirdwind

    thirdwind Member Contest Administrator Reviewer Contributor

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    I've heard lots of bad things about it. It's gotten to the point where there are conspiracy theories about the book. Some people say that her lawyer was the one who actually wrote the book and put her name on it. Whatever the case, one thing everyone seems to agree on is that this book is horrible compared to TKAM in terms of the writing quality.
     
  6. Lemex

    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    It was written before To Kill A Mocking Bird, and the manuscript that is now published as the new novel was picked like vultures feasting on carrion by editors for good things to put into To Kill a Mocking Bird anyway, so I don't see myself even bothering to read the new book to be honest.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2015
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  7. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

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    A disgrace. I feel bad for Harper Lee.
     
  8. Kingtype

    Kingtype Banned Contributor

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    Never read To Kill a Mockingbird but enjoyed the film but well I don't know about this conspiracy stuff but TKAM seemed like a pretty one shot piece of work. Not something that needs a sequel, it felt like a very finite piece of work.

    The movie anyway.

    Not sure about the book.
     
  9. Link the Writer

    Link the Writer Flipping Out For A Good Story. Contributor

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    The whole thing's a disgrace. Couldn't they have just left this unfinished draft alone? There was a reason her sister told her to scrap it and focus on the childhood bits. A part of me can't help but feel that Harper Lee was manipulated in some way. I mean, here she is at the end of her life, her mind is deteriorating. What better chance for someone to convince her to publish that draft as a final 'hurrah'?

    Plus, Go Set A Watchman made Finch a racist bigot if I'm to understand it correctly. Atticus Finch! One of the most famous, honorable lawyers in fiction, the embodiment of good and justice...is now a racist bigot? Nope, not in my head-canon. As far as I'm concerned, the sequel is just some crazy dream Scout had later in life. Then she wakes up and wonders how in the world that happened.
     
  10. Kingtype

    Kingtype Banned Contributor

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    Ah well.

    Thug Notes cleared it up pretty well.



    Its an early draft of Mockinbird or well a prototype.
     
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  11. Link the Writer

    Link the Writer Flipping Out For A Good Story. Contributor

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    Makes sense.

    As for the analysis:

    Wow. Those were good points he made, I didn't even consider it.

    Regardless of whether or not Finch was always a racist, he clearly had good qualities in him despite all that. He was a good father and he was still willing to fight for justice and truth no matter what. We saw those qualities through the eyes of a small child. She never saw the bad sides either because she subconsciously edited them out, or he never showed the bad sides around her and the other Finch children.

    In a way, this makes Finch more well-rounded than he was in To Kill A Mockingbird. Now instead of a godlike figure, he's a deeply flawed human being. This makes him a very interesting character to study, imho. Especially with regard to the famous court room scene. If he had been a racist this whole time, then what does that make the court room scene when he's trying to save a black man from being killed for a crime he didn't commit?

    I think he summed it up well. Can a person with obviously bigoted views still have good qualities, or are they just a straight up monster? Interesting thing to meditate on. Thanks for the video.
     
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  12. Lemex

    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    Atticus Finch in TKAMB was still an elitist though, right?
     
  13. Jack Asher

    Jack Asher Banned Contributor

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  14. Kingtype

    Kingtype Banned Contributor

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    Yeah Thug Notes and all the stuff on Wisecrack channel are pretty great but since I've only seen the movie and have only been reading various summaries on the book.

    But if the question is who is the real Atticus or if he was really racist.

    Given what we know about both books.

    I'd argue that both Atticus's are both two sides of the same coin in some respect but at the same time I think they are different people. I don't mean to get metaphsyical of course but seeing as Go Set a Watchman isn't a sequel in a traditional sense and according to my research there are differences in general continuity that stops it from sharing the same timeline as TKAM (Feel free to correct me)

    If this is the case then it somewhat reminds me of an alternate universe.

    Where it is the same person but it isn't.

    I think besides the racism discussion you brought up which is a great one, if a man can be good while still having extremely deplorable views. But another discussion we could generate is perhaps.....who is the true Atticus?

    One was the original version and the other has more cultural significance.

    We of course have all written things where we've changed out characters from what they originally were or scrapped some idea that just wasn't clicking in the way you wanted it to and of course we threw it away or put into a mental box for perhaps later use.

    But this Go Set a Watchman is (well seems like) an interesting look into something that wasn't but now is. I know this was a pretty big ramble and I don't really have a set point but its interesting to think about, what counts as the true version basically.
     
  15. Jack Asher

    Jack Asher Banned Contributor

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    If I was interested in reading what is basically an unpublishable first draft, I'd go back to reading The Wheel of Time series. It's pretty clear this is a shameless cash grab, not just by Lee's agent, but by Haper Collins who has already sold over a million copies. If ever there was a time to advocate stealing a book, this would be it.
     
  16. Kingtype

    Kingtype Banned Contributor

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    Well no doubt its a cash grab.

    That I do not deny but I do have an interest in reading author's amateur/unpublished work as it really is fascinating how far one can come and just to see how general ideas and concepts progress. Publishing unpublished works shouldn't be a norm by any means.

    And certainly not marketed as a sequel or be put out without the author's permission.
     
  17. Link the Writer

    Link the Writer Flipping Out For A Good Story. Contributor

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    My pet theory is that the Atticus we saw in Go Set A Watchman was the same *exact* Atticus we saw in To Kill A Mockingbird. He was just a lot less subtle in his racism in this book.

    Keep in mind, To Kill A Mocking Bird was from the perspective of a small child. As far as she was concerned, the dude was damned near godlike. The point here, I believe, is that as we age, we have to learn and accept that our parents have flaws, flaws that we don't agree with. Atticus was racist, always had been and it was only now she was facing the truth of it and having to accept it.

    Basically, Atticus is a human, and like all humans, he's got flaws. His just so happens to be, ‘I think everyone from this racial group are logically inferior to me!’ This paradoxes with his famous defense of Robinson, the black man unjustly accused of a crime he didn't commit. Atticus, the bigot who hated blacks, was willing to defend an innocent black man in court. This tells me that as far as Atticus is concerned, the law is the law. He may not have seen Robinson as an equal, but he was going to make damned sure an innocent man wouldn't get hanged for a crime he didn't commit.

    From what I've been able to research, both this and To Kill A Mocking Bird are technically the same book. After all, at one point in time, they were one singular book until Harper Lee's sister told her to gut everything but the childhood, which eventually became To Kill A Mockingbird. We're just now being graced with the adult sections of the book. This was never a sequel or a prequel, but rather the entire other half of a manuscript that once existed as a singular whole.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2015
  18. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

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    @Link the Writer I don't think that true. Go Set a Watchman was submitted, and rejected, as a separate manuscript before TKAM was ever written, not just something that was trimmed off the end of TKAM. What we have as TKAM was the product of significant rewrites of the story after Watchman was rejected.
     
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  19. Link the Writer

    Link the Writer Flipping Out For A Good Story. Contributor

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    Ah, I didn't realize that one. Good point.
     
  20. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

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    That's the history I've read in a handful of news articles, and what makes me think Lee didn't want this published. Her sister had been protecting Lee, and keeping the manuscript out of publication. Then three months after she dies the new book is announced?
     
  21. Link the Writer

    Link the Writer Flipping Out For A Good Story. Contributor

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    And that's where the shady stuff lies. I firmly believe that Harper Lee was manipulated, either willingly or not, to publish this manuscript.
     
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  22. Fullmetal Xeno

    Fullmetal Xeno Protector of Literature Contributor

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    I've been itching to read it, but now since you pointed this out i have second thoughts. :meh:
     
  23. Link the Writer

    Link the Writer Flipping Out For A Good Story. Contributor

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    Sorry for bumping this thread, had another thought:

    After doing some consideration from the opposition POV regarding Atticus, I realized, did we really need him to be a racist? The reason we loved him so much was because he was the icon of purity, of justice, of honor in the face of such hatred. Did we really need to have that torn down to have him be no better than the racists he was fighting in To Kill A Mocking Bird?

    We don't always need to have characters with dark, sinister backstories like, ‘Oh, I'm a racist!’ or ‘Oh, I used to do really bad things in my youth!’ Sometimes we just need a character that is more or less an embodiment of an idea. Atticus was a symbol. Nothing wrong with having a character that stands more as a symbol.

    Anyway, just wanted to get that off my chest. :D
     
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  24. Lemex

    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    All it really adds is even good men can turn ugly. That's even more reason to not even bother with Watchman, we know this already - that's partly what TKAMB was about.

    I must admit, I like the name though, 'Go Set a Watchman' - I can't help but link it to the opening of Hamlet, or the opening of Agamemnon.
     
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