1. (Mark)
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    (Mark) Contributing Member

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    School Shootings

    Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by (Mark), Feb 15, 2008.

    It seems like these are happening more and more each year. Just today, a man at Northern Illinois University killed four people, not including him. He walked into a Geology lecture with a shotgun and two handguns, and shot close to twenty people before turning one of the guns on himself.

    I live in Moscow, Idaho, where someone went on a shooting spree downtown at the end of last school year, within a month of the Virginia Tech shooting. This person had an automatic rifle, and killed his wife, a police officer, a church sexton and himself, as well as wounding another police officer and a University student. This happened about one mile from where I live.

    I can think of at least five school shootings in the last year.

    What the hell is happening?
     
  2. bootleg_manuscript
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    bootleg_manuscript New Member

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    Heard about this after work today. I really don't know what to think about things like this. You are right, it does appear that it is happening quite a bit. That, or it just gets publicized more.
     
  3. Eoz Eanj
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    Eoz Eanj Contributing Member Contributor

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    Incidents like these just make Bowling for Columbine more valid.
     
  4. Bluemouth
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    Bluemouth Contributing Member Contributor

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    Perhaps if firearms weren't sold openly in department stores throughout the US they'd fall into the wrong hands less frequently.

    In Australia, I wouldn't know where to go to purchase a firearm ...
     
  5. lordofhats
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    lordofhats Contributing Member

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    The Northern Illinois Shooter did kill himself in the end. If he didn't then I guess we're thinking of two different shootings and the problem of school shootings is compounded.

    There was a lapse of shootings until Virginia Tech, and then just like Columbine before it a hoard of other shootings broke out most likely because of copy cats.There's something to be said for why this and other big public shootings follow a distinctly similare pattern. Walk in -> shoot others -> shoot self.

    I ahve no idea why people do this. It baffles me why, if your life is so messed up, you would go off and start shooting people. ALot of these people who do these things, don't even seem to have it half bad either. We'd probably know more about these events and the state of mind if the perpitraitors idn't kill themselves so much.

    I am glad to read that NIU was much more active in secureing its campus than virginia tech, locking the campus down after the shooting rather than allowing the day to go on. I'd hope my college would be as attentive.

    As for guns. I'll add Illinois is one of the most restrictive states in the US concerning firearms.
     
  6. Raven
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    Raven Banned

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    If its not guns its knives. The problem is there are such evil sadistic bleeps about. It makes me sick.

    One day it could be our children in a school that get murdered by a lunatic. It sickens me at the thought. How the hell do you deal with the loss of one of your kids in that fashion.
    Sometimes I really hate society and the loons that live amongst us.
     
  7. lordofhats
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    lordofhats Contributing Member

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    I agree Raven.

    That being said, new details are avaliable and it appears that the shooter had purchased two of his three firearms legally two weeks before the shooting:

    Details Emerge, Yahoo! News


    According to the artical 27 year old Stephen Kazmierczak apparently was on some kind of medication and stopped taking it, becoming erratic, prior to the shooting.
     
  8. PrincessGarnet
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    PrincessGarnet Contributing Member

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    In most cases i blame the parents...
     
  9. wordwizard
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    wordwizard Contributing Member

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    I don't blame the parents. I blame the shooter. No matter how bad home life or school life is for them...there is always another option than taking everybody with you.

    I understand that parents, had they paid more attention to their child, that it may have helped in some way. But in no way do I blame them for their child going absolutely nuts. These kids have mental problems. If they are comfortable enough to go out and shoot many many people and then themselves. The parents may have nothing to do with it.

    Another point to that is why only blame the parents? why not balme the schools, the kids in the schools, and maybe the uncle who back in the day molested him/her? It would be unfair to place the balme on the parents if that were the case.
    But I agai do know where your coming from because if the parents had stepped in and said...you need counselling then that may have helped.

    This world is disgusting.
     
  10. Raven
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    Raven Banned

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    There are many facts that could lead to this. At the end of the day unless the parents put the weapons in the childs hands how can it be their fault for that kind of crime.

    Each living being makes their own choices and to choose to kill in such a way is pure evil and sick minded.

    I made a living carrying a gun and have seen so much but none of that has ever made me want to murder. No matter how bad life gets there's always help at hand councilling and various of choices.

    To take a life in cold blood is evil.
     
  11. (Mark)
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    (Mark) Contributing Member

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    I've read in many places that most guns used in crimes are obtained illegally...

    frontline: hot guns: "How Criminals Get Guns" | PBS
    NCPA - Policy Report 176 - Myths About Gun Control
    How Criminals Get Guns: In Short, All Too Easily - New York Times

    At any rate, taking guns away from law abiding citizens isn't going to solve the problem. Most department stores are at least following federal fire arms laws, where as gun shows and private sales aren't one hundred percent with it.

    I was talking to an exchange student from England the other day, who was against gun ownership. While in other countries it's not such a big deal, it is something that is rooted into American culture, and won't go anywhere until this country goes the way of the dinosaur. People are too firmly attached to their guns.

    As much as I wish that guns just didn't exist, that's not going to happen. The system is so far removed that if the authorities were to launch a massive crackdown on firearms, most of the people who would lose their weapons would be those who follow the law.
     
  12. lordofhats
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    lordofhats Contributing Member

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    I would say there are times when parents are to blame. i've seen plenty who, when their child gets in trouble, attack the principle or the police and ask why they are trying to ruin her son/daughters life. It is the parents primary duty to keep her/his son/daughter out of trouble and teach them proper morals and values and for some reason alot of parents try to deligate these responsibilities to others and blame others when it goes wrong.

    However often times a parent can do everything possible and still end up with a horrible human being for a child. In this case the parents were no longer responsible for their son. He's 27, a college grad, and an adult. The parents have no control over him any more though I do wonder what kind of meds he was taking.

    In short: Sometimes its the parents fault, but more often than not a parent does everything possible and still has trouble.

    This is true but alot of these guns were orignally purchased legally but are then modified (Semi-suto to auto, removal of serial numbers, etc) and then resold illegally often in other states (It is illegal to take a firearm across state lines without informing the state you are leaving and the one you are entering).

    This is how alot of people avoid gun regulations since their not uniform throughout the states. Buy a gun in a state where they are easy to obtain (Georgia or Minnisotta for example) and the n take the firearms to states where the laws are more restrictive (New York or California for example). I'm not sure if that's the case in this event but this often happens. A gun is bought legally and then resold illegally through gun smuggling. So your right Connolly but its a half truth (Its ok, I used to say that too until my uncle, an Illinois police officer in fact, informed me of this).

    EDIT: I don't think removing guns will solve the problem. I agree that if guns are banned the only ones who lose are those who abide by gun laws. If a criminal can smuggle drugs they can smuggle guns from somewhere.
     
  13. ValianceInEnd
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    ValianceInEnd Active Member

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    I partially agree with you there Connolly. Taking away guns from the general populace would solve nothing. Drugs are illegal, yet over 20 million Americans manage to get their hands on them off the black market and what not. If guns were made illegal, then only the criminals would be able to use them and the law abiding citizens would have no means of defending themselves. I'm strongly against gun control and hope it never happens.
    Now, saying you wish they never exsisted is something that seems a bit wishy-washy to me. The means of making them exsist on Earth and man is going to invent what he can from Earth itself. Its an imature thought to say "I wish guns never exsisted". Besides, most people who own weapons are good citizens and use them for their intended purposes, recreation and as tools. Hunting is a majorly important way of keeping wildlife herds from getting out of hand. They make for great competitions in markmenship. Unfortunatley, all the goons who get their hands on a weapon and abuse their privilleges make it worse for the rest of us. People suck.
     
  14. TWErvin2
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    TWErvin2 Contributing Member Contributor

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    States in the USA with concealed carry laws, when enacted, violent and gun-related crime drops. Does it drop to zero? No. Does it become 'the wild west' with shootouts and innocents being killed in the crossfire? No.

    In tragedies such as this, where do the shooters go? A place where there are a lot of people and where they are not allowed, by law, to have a firearm to protect themselves (or others). Criminals don't follow the law, good citizens do, be it obtaining, keeping, proper use and storage, and carrying where a firearm is legally allowed.

    Part of the problem is that the culture has changed. Many people are not familiar with or comfortable around firearms. They never grew up with them, or hunted, or the like. There is nothing wrong with that. But what they do know/believe is that guns are dangerous...but they're only dangerous if in the wrong hands. It wasn't that many years ago when there were shooting clubs, with rifles, in many high schools.

    In the latest tragic case being discussed, it was the young indivdiual, who went in and shot those innocent students and then committed suicide, who is to blame. More facts will emerge, but it seems unlikely that the parents or others could be blamed for the violent action taken.

    Terry
     
  15. ValianceInEnd
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    ValianceInEnd Active Member

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    All I have to say is amen. If only people could act rationally...
     
  16. (Mark)
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    (Mark) Contributing Member

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    What?

    It's not an "imature thought" to "say" that guns never existed. I wish that we could live in a world where weapons weren't necessary, and everyone could co-exist in harmony. I suppose that makes me sound like I'm taking part in a beauty pageant, but don't you think that world would be better than the one that we live in?
     
  17. Milady
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    Milady Contributing Member

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    I guess we can only hope there aren't any copy-cat shootings like there were after Columbine or Virginia Tech.

    Just after the VT shooting, my school was all but closed down for a day or two because of a shooting threat and the neighboring school was evacuated because of a bomb threat.

    What is it about these things that make people want to reenact them? Fame? Attention? It's all so stupid.
     
  18. lordofhats
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    lordofhats Contributing Member

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    Usually I would say fame and of course the media with its "free press" loves putting the shooters up on the pedestal of celeberity status.
     
  19. mammamaia
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    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

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    how many of you who are playing the blame game here get [or got at a younger age] your kicks playing shoot-'em-up video/computer games, played with laser guns/swords, cowboy six-shooters, water pistols and other mock-deadly weapons?

    a society that glamorizes violence and killing is what/who's to blame here, folks... till you change this sick human society [and it's not just the american's!] and your own appetite for murderous blood and gore-based movies, comics, playthings, you'll continue to see horrors like the scotland kindergarten and tasmania massacres, columbine, va tech and niu carnage and all the rest...

    some of you seem to be starting to see why i have to view the entire human race as hopelessly evil-tainted...

    love and despairing hugs, maia
     
  20. Daniel
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    Daniel I'm sure you've heard the rumors. Founder Staff Contributor

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    I don't intend to turn this thread into an argument about gun rights, but I would like to point out that typically, if everyday citizens are allowed to carry guns with concealed or open carry laws, crime decreases. This has been the case in many states. Moreover, Illinois is one of only a handful of states that doesn't have concealed carry laws, so it would be harder for people to get guns. Regardless, from what I understand, securing any gun, legal or illegal, is fairly easy.

    On topic, this is a horrendous event that does seem to be happening more frequently. I live in Illinois, so this somewhat relevant to me. It can be scary and sobering. Have they discovered the shooters motive?
     
  21. Daniel
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    Daniel I'm sure you've heard the rumors. Founder Staff Contributor

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    I don't intend to turn this thread into an argument about gun rights, but I would like to point out that typically, if everyday citizens are allowed to carry guns with concealed or open carry laws, crime decreases. This has been the case in many states. Moreover, Illinois is one of only a handful of states that doesn't have concealed carry laws, so it would be harder for people to get guns. Regardless, from what I understand, securing any gun, legal or illegal, is fairly easy.

    On topic, this is a horrendous event that does seem to be happening more frequently. I live in Illinois, so this somewhat relevant to me. It can be scary and sobering. Have they discovered the shooters motive?
     
  22. lordofhats
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    lordofhats Contributing Member

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    I'd have to say yep. This was me as a kid and though I've dropped the toys I still got the games.

    I don't think anyone glamorizes violence... well ok most of us don't glamorize violence. I can think of maybe a half dozen people I've known who were border line sociopaths (scary stuff). I would rather say that publishers/movie producers/game developers do on many an occasion abuse the violent side of human nature to make profits (and often throw in seemly uneccessary amounts of violence just so they can say "This DVD was too bloody for theatres" or something like that).

    Seriously though I don't think anyone watches the first twenty minutes of Saving Private Ryan and think's that all the carnage and violence depicted is glamorous. People see that and think "OMG that's horrible!" Violence should most likely be told like it is or not at all (Sadly most mainstream media likes to blow it out of porportion for some reason beyond me).

    I play violent games but I don't play them for the violence per say. I enjoy the feeling of seeing another world come to life, like in a movie or a book, but get the added feeling of being an active part of this world, which is why I think video games are addictive. Its not the violence its the active participation in a story.

    I'm still waiting for technology to develope that will allow the creation of pure drama or romance style games. Right now we lack the tools to make the neccessary enviromental interactions and AI programming to make such style games practical or affordable. I'd give it about ten to twenty years before we start seeing these kind of games though.

    I don't think we're hopelessly evil. We all have the capacity for good and evil. As a whole I'd say humanity is just plain gray (Sme of us a bad, some of us are good, alot of us walk the middle line). Gray is boring though so good = blue, evil = red, making humanity purple. That's much more interesting :cool:.
     
  23. lordofhats
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    lordofhats Contributing Member

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    There was no suicide note so its iffy. Like I said before though it is known the shooter was on a medication and stopped taking it so the event could have been some kind of psychotic break or something.
     
  24. ValianceInEnd
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    ValianceInEnd Active Member

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    I din't mean any offense by it if you were. I agree that a world of "peace" would be down right grand. Still, people can never find peace, ever. Bottom line. Its pretty to think about, but there's always someone who wants more and messes it up for the rest of us.

    But I guess I should stay on topic.
    I wish people wouldn't think that their only option is to not only off themselves, but take it out on other innocent people. It achieves nothing and wastes everthing. Truely a coward's way out as they say.
     
  25. Klee
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    Klee Contributing Member

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    You don't need to wait anymore. They're Japanese and called dating-sim games, ero-games or H-games, and most contain porn although not all. Some might argue that these games increase sex crimes...
     

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