Self Publishing vs Publishing

Discussion in 'Traditional Publishing' started by BlackBird, Dec 31, 2012.

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Published vs Self Published, which is better

Poll closed Mar 31, 2013.
  1. Published - Professional

    21 vote(s)
    52.5%
  2. Self Published

    6 vote(s)
    15.0%
  3. Neither

    13 vote(s)
    32.5%
  1. Selbbin

    Selbbin The Moderating Cat Staff Contributor Contest Winner 2023

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    The harder the road, the more respect you should get for having walked it.

    Why give the same respect for a self-publisher as trade, when the trade route is harder?

    Self-publishing credentials are as worthless as a 'participation award'. Any idiot can get one just by showing up.
     
  2. shadowwalker

    shadowwalker Contributor Contributor

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    And quite possibly he could - but if he chooses not to go that route, it shouldn't generate an automatic derogatory response.

    The trade route is not necessarily harder; it depends on whether the self-publisher does it right or does it sloppy.

    I think the thing that bugs me on this forum is the total and automatic disregard members have for self-publishing. It is, IMO, no better than the SPs who run around proclaiming that trade publishing is dying, and that only fools will go that route. There's no reason for either 'camp' to act superior simply because they made different choices. A little respect for the individuals (including self-publishing members of this forum) would be nice.
     
  3. jwideman

    jwideman New Member

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    Not every self-published author can be Amanda Hocking, but not every traditionally published author can be Stephen King either.
    Now, if you're talking who is qualified to be a member of various professional organizations, that's another matter.
     
  4. Ian J.

    Ian J. Active Member

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    In the recent BBC 'The Bottom Line' programme on Books (which I created a thread for on this forum here) the publisher mentions that the self-publishing community is now a place to look for new authors who they then take under their wing, so arguably self-publishing shouldn't be seen just as a means to itself, but also a way to start getting noticed by publishers (who can probably save a bit of money by not having to market new authors from scratch if they've already started to make a name for themselves via S-P).
     
  5. shadowwalker

    shadowwalker Contributor Contributor

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    Didn't see the program but I don't think I'd look at SP as a way to get a trade publisher's attention. Most large trade publishers already have more submissions coming in than they need - they don't have manpower or interest in culling through self-published works. The only authors that might work for are those whose books have been phenomenally successful - but those are the exceptions. I suppose smaller publishers might be looking at them a little more closely, though.
     
  6. lettuce head

    lettuce head Active Member

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    I know a few authors who self published and later were picked up by publishing houses. They did very well.

    They believed in their own work. Is that vanity? They were willing to take their book to the people, work hard, face the risk of failure and put their life on the line. I admire that. They were turned down by publishers until they proved how well they could support an audience.

    A publisher is not the final word on evaluating quality. They take on books that crash and burn all the time.
     
  7. JennyM

    JennyM New Member

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    The cream will always rise to the top, while the rubbish will sink into oblivion. That is so true regarding self-published ebooks on Amazon. There are some crummy books on Amazon, there are also some crummy books sold through traditional publishers.

    If a writer is good, then their book will attract good reviews, and they will rise. If not, then their book will sink into the huge quagmire of Amazon nothingness. Some of the book reviews can be quite scathing, especially where grammar and spelling is concerned. It can only take a couple of bad reviews for an ebook to 'die'. Amazon also take into account clicks on those 'like' buttons, just like Google.

    It's true that some self-publishers have paid for good reviews, but Amazon is doing their best to combat that deceit. Through those mysterious algorythms of Amazon, good books will always rise.

    It's a whole new ball game! To me there is no 'right' or 'wrong' to self-publish. It's completely up to the author.

    It is such an exciting time for writers. No, I don't believe our wonderful English language will suffer, in fact I believe it will have all the more opportunity to flourish and grow.

    Can an author of a self published book be called a 'published author' - call me what you like, it's only a name.
     
  8. jwideman

    jwideman New Member

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    And too, some things get published and become immensely popular despite having no quality at all. Twilight is proof enough of this. On the other hand, publishers often overlook books they think won't sell, regardless of quality, that turn out to sell very well once somebody gives it a chance. Amanda Hocking was turned down by publishers a lot. So was J. K. Rowling until she got lucky.
    I once talked to an author who had been trying to sell his novel for the last 10 years. I asked him what the publishers said, if they responded. He actually got a LOT of responses more or less saying "Your writing is great, but this will never sell."
     
  9. Selbbin

    Selbbin The Moderating Cat Staff Contributor Contest Winner 2023

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    It's not what other people call you. They can call you what they like, more or less. It's what you call yourself and how you represent yourself. There are enough people out there in the big scary world that just want to call themselves an author because doing so makes them feel accomplished; it makes them feel in the same league as actual authors. But that's just fraud, and soon being an author won't mean anything except that you've just written any old glob and clicked 'send'.
     
  10. shadowwalker

    shadowwalker Contributor Contributor

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    Being an author doesn't mean anything more than you've written something. Making it into some kind of ego-trip is worthless.
     
  11. Selbbin

    Selbbin The Moderating Cat Staff Contributor Contest Winner 2023

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    Go to a dinner party and tell them you're an author and see if they simply assume 'you've written something' and shrug it off. I bet that instead their ears will prick up with interest and admiration because of the assumptions that are carried by the word. And then for dessert, watch them slump with dissapointment as soon as you utter the word 'self...'
     
  12. shadowwalker

    shadowwalker Contributor Contributor

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    I'm not sure anyone other than other writers or people in publishing have any idea there's a difference between self-publishing and trade publishing. Published is published to them; if that weren't the case, I wouldn't be seeing articles about local published authors in our paper, and then find that they are indeed self-published. To the 'layman', it's all the same.

    My main point remains - lumping all self-published authors into one denigrated group is no better than those self-published gurus who put down trade publishing. The only reason for it is to make oneself feel better about the choices made, and it's really pretty childish. And again, I'm saying this as someone who has no interest whatsoever in self-publishing.
     
  13. Selbbin

    Selbbin The Moderating Cat Staff Contributor Contest Winner 2023

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    I for one don't lump them together, despite the impression you may get, and have posted previously the benefits and merits of self-publishing as a means to an end. My posts are about credibility.
     
  14. lettuce head

    lettuce head Active Member

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    And that, to me, goes both ways. It is an ego trip to self publish for the sake of bragging rights or to cast yourself in a better light than you present to the world every day. It is also an ego trip to strictly adhere to the idea that only those picked up by a publisher have the "right" to brag or elevate themselves above others. Just my opinion.

    I was a publisher for 11 years, a company I started in 1990 dealing with holistic health issues. It was absolutely incredible how people would act when they found out I was a publisher. I received instant respect from people. It was the strangest thing. Part of the job. I learned to write because I found it was my duty to define the intent of the publication in "From the Publisher" found in each issue. Now, when someone found meaning in one of my personal stories in my column that was all the recognition I ever needed or wanted. It was great to reach people in such a way that they got the meaning I tried to convey. All of the grand respect for being a publisher was some misplaced admiration that actually had no meaning. I was just a business man putting out a monthly thing. Little did I know touching other people with words would take on deep meaning for me.

    The point is that connecting through the use of the written word can be very satisfying in whatever form that takes. From a novel to a letter to an editor, it is the act of reaching out that matters most. If the whole thing is an ego trip for a writer, how could the meaning of what they write be anything more than that as well?
     
  15. shadowwalker

    shadowwalker Contributor Contributor

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    I totally agree. People will self-publish for a wide variety of reasons, not just vanity. Nonfiction has been a 'natural' for self-publishing for ages - no way one could call that vanity publishing. Small niche markets are ideal for self-publishing - just because the market is too specialized or too small for a trade publisher to deal with doesn't mean the author is publishing only for their own ego. Authors also self-publish because they want that experience. It's like cooking a full course meal instead of eating out. It doesn't have to be about vanity.
     
  16. JennyM

    JennyM New Member

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    I agree with you Shadowwalker, especially the bottom line of your signature.

    I'm just sad when I think of the fantastic talent that has been extinguished by someone sitting at a desk with the task of deciding which book to add to their 'quota', when the author could have rattled his own destiny somewhat and self-published; instead being disillusioned with the whole writing game. It's a whole new take on 'publish and NOT be damned'!

    The authors of rubbish ebooks will soon stop wasting their time. They will either polish their work, or take up some other hobby - maybe resign to the fact of writing for personal pleasure only.

    Still rubbish ebooks stand as a good 'how not to...' examples. I'm sure a lot of us have taken inspiration from a bad project (eg: a book, piece of carpentry) and thought "I can do better than that!", and physically picked up the challenge.

    One of the great kickbacks from self-publishing is the free classical books you can download. Somehow money has to be found to publish these free classic books digitally by the likes of Google, Amazon, and Gutenberg Press. Classical books are freely available to download to iphones, tablets etc., and easily accessible for a teen sitting on bus who has a moment of curiosity to read 'A Tale of Two Cities' for example. Otherwise, think of the hoops this young teen would have to jump through to obtain the printed version; money, peer ridicule, time, to mention a few of the 'hoops'. Sorry I digress a little, but the bigger picture beckons. :)
     
  17. JennyM

    JennyM New Member

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    Oops, one more thing... (my husband hate me saying that, especially in an argument!:rolleyes:)

    Those free classic books are a fabulous way of researching. For example, 'The Diary of a Confederate Wife' - you've got history right from the source!
     
  18. Selbbin

    Selbbin The Moderating Cat Staff Contributor Contest Winner 2023

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    A library...
     
  19. JennyM

    JennyM New Member

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    Yes, though I was thinking more of a tough nut, not wanting to be seen as a swot.
     
  20. shadowwalker

    shadowwalker Contributor Contributor

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    There are just so many reasons why a book doesn't get picked up by a trade publisher other than it's a crappy piece of writing. Yes, publishers have only so many slots open each year, but there are other reasons as well - like they just signed another author with a very similar book, or the author sent it to an agent who doesn't even handle that genre (amazing how many authors don't research agents).
     
  21. GhostWolfe

    GhostWolfe New Member

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    There's a misconception here that self publishing, by definition, costs money. That is no longer true.

    Yes, as the barriers to entry fall, so too does the dross of poorly-written & poorly edited books rise; but to tar all self publishing writers with the same brush is frankly narrow-minded.

    Further, to say that self-publishing is easy smacks of having no understanding of what it takes to produce a print-worthy piece without the assistance of a trade publisher.
     
  22. Selbbin

    Selbbin The Moderating Cat Staff Contributor Contest Winner 2023

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    I've done it (to create a fun editing sample, not to make public, although I could have). It's easy. In fact, it's so easy that anyone with any level of experience can do it. There are websites dedicated to it with easy to follow step by step guides. To think it's difficult smacks of not having done even the most basic research into self-publishing. I'm not saying it's easy to make something good, but that's exactly the problem. It's ridiculously easy to put something out there that's bad, so a lot of people do. And because a lot of people do put out the bad stuff and everyone knows it, it's hard for people that put out the good stuff to rise above that reputation. You can't say'I self-published, but it's good, honest!'

    It seems that many people here take offence to the reality that self-publishing has a well-deserved stigma. And I think that's because they're self-published, or want to be, and feel the stigma will apply to their works. Because of this they get offended at self-publishing being condemned, like it's a sports team they follow, and feel it a personal attack. 'You're saying my work is crap!' And sorry to say, but for most of them it's true.

    For my two cents if you're self-published then you're not really published, just as someone who goes running in the morning isn't an athlete. The only exception in my view are people who are creating a financially viable product independently, through choice and not desperation.

    My opinion isn't official, so don't worry about letting me know why you disagree and why i should change my mind, because I won't. Best just to post your own opinion, which will be just as legit.
     
  23. GhostWolfe

    GhostWolfe New Member

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    I decided to self publish the novella I wrote for NaNoWriMo last year as a bit of a lark. All the nights I sat up until 1 or 2 in the morning; the time I spent going through 45k words to make sure every single apostrophe used the 'smart' form & not the straight 'inches' form; editing, moving, hyphenating, and scaling text to control the ophans & widows; and that's just a glimpse at the effort I put in, none of this was easy. It took a lot of work, a lot of hard work.

    There is a gulf of distance between people who will self publish any old junk & people who have decided to take on the mantle of being their own editor, typesetter, & marketer. And having put in two months solid of work, yes, I do kinda take offense at the assumption that the work I did, by sole virtue of being self published, is crap. It's not a literary masterpiece, either, but as you haven't read my work it would behoove you not make assumptions about it.
     
  24. Ian J.

    Ian J. Active Member

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    There's no doubt that to produce a polished novel takes a lot of effort, regardless of whether it's TP or SP. The writing alone takes ages. For one person to then also be doing the proof-reading, typesetting, cover design, marketing, etc is a big task. That's at least one reason why many SP authors don't put the effort in and therefore why SP has a bad reputation. However, for someone who is talented enough the work isn't hard as such, just time consuming, so in that sense it's 'easy'.

    What I would say though is that to truly self-publish alone isn't wise. I've been there, done that, bought the t-shirt. Twice. All authors, whether SP or TP, need to have others around them to help give feedback at various stages so they can have perspective. It's no use being esconced in our worlds completely closed off from criticism and expecting to come up with a masterpiece. For those of us without networks of people willing to do such feedback work it can be a problem. All my associates just seem to want to read a finished work, and aren't willing to help me with the refining of the work to get it to that point.
     
  25. Selbbin

    Selbbin The Moderating Cat Staff Contributor Contest Winner 2023

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    The 'bit of a lark' is pretty much my point, and pretty much the problem. I'm sure your typing was spot on, but how can I have confidence the story is worth my time to read? I'd rather you spent a year editing the story than 2 months editing the text.

    Readers aren't there just to humour the writer or make them feel good. The writers are there for the readers. Self-publishing should be an economic and/or cultural benefit, but it's generally still just a portal for vanity and ego boosting.
     

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