1. BayView
    Offline

    BayView Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2014
    Messages:
    5,624
    Likes Received:
    5,107

    Sensation of Firing M4 Carbine

    Discussion in 'Research' started by BayView, Apr 3, 2016.

    I don't need a lot, but if anyone has any experience firing an M-4 or similar military-style rifle... can you help me out with some little details?

    I've fired hunting rifles, so I understand the general principles - what would be different?

    Also, my character is an ex-marine, current police officer, fighting a fairly intense battle in his police officer uniform (some version of fictional Montana sheriff-ness). Are there any little details that might twig for him - I assume his current gear would be lighter, so maybe he'd feel more mobile, but also more vulnerable?

    I don't need much, just a few little details to make things feel authentic. Thanks for any help!
     
  2. Jack Asher
    Offline

    Jack Asher Wildly experimental Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2013
    Messages:
    3,571
    Likes Received:
    2,053
    Location:
    Denver
    Hmmmm, usually if they're going to hand assault weapons to a police officer, he's wearing riot gear, or he's SWAT, which means his armor is pretty comparable to what any branch of the military wears in the field.

    As far as the use of assault weapons what you notice first is how loud they are. A single rifle a couple of shots is one thing, but extended fire with an M-4 really means that he won't be able to hear a goddamn thing for a good half hour. In the movies they always show the fighters communicating with hand signals. Sure that's partly so that no one can hear them lay their plans out. But mostly because none of them can hear shit.
     
    BayView likes this.
  3. BayView
    Offline

    BayView Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2014
    Messages:
    5,624
    Likes Received:
    5,107
    But how will they have their deep, heart-felt conversations if they can't hear each other? Aaaargh, stupid reality - why do you have to be so annoying?

    Would it be completely weird for them to wear earplugs or some other noise-blocking tool? I mean, would it be weird for them to have these tools around, waiting to be used?

    My research said that a lot of sheriff's offices have M4s in their squad cars... I can see him maybe having a bulletproof vest he could pull on, but I don't know about the rest of the gear.
     
  4. Jack Asher
    Offline

    Jack Asher Wildly experimental Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2013
    Messages:
    3,571
    Likes Received:
    2,053
    Location:
    Denver
    In Colorado it's a shotgun, but my information could be wrong. In the city (and I realize it could be different in rural Montana) the officers wear their vests at all times. Even in tiny cities in the mountains, the cops are walking around strapped.

    And no, hearing protection is a very bad idea in the field. Limiting your ability to hear gunshots sounds like a good idea for safety, but what it means is that hearing the direction a gunshot comes from becomes just about impossible. As you might imagine, this is an important detail in a combat situation.
     
  5. Samurai Jack
    Offline

    Samurai Jack Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2010
    Messages:
    167
    Likes Received:
    101
    Location:
    Nashville, TN
    I'll happily fire off 200 rounds from an M4 and follow that with a quiet conversation. Being behind an M4 isn't that loud.

    The Marines I engaged with wore substantially less body armor than I did in the Army, but the increased used of heavy armor came from increased time as stationary, predictable targets. If I was in a truck on a main road patrol, I wore everything. If I was on foot, at night, or somewhere new/unexpected, I wore very little.

    A combat load of ammunition was 240 rounds, 8 - 30 round magazines on a light vest. No idea who the MC is fighting or his theory on life. I'm not a sniper, not one-shot-one-kill, I'm shooting to keep heads down and maneuvering close for a kill so I'd need the rounds. The M4 trades long range accuracy for short range maneuverability.
     
    BayView likes this.
  6. The Triarii
    Offline

    The Triarii Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2016
    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    21
    I would second Jack from personal experience, an M-4 is not loud at all. A M-4 also has very little recoil, for example, while i was in basic training the drill sergeant fired it with the buttstock directly on his crotch. M-4 are made for sustained fire not precision. They are generally used in urban combat and CQB. They have been widely adopted as modern warfare has dramatically shifted to urban settings.

    As far as differences from a hunting rifle a lot of that would depend on what specific hunting rifle and what attachments an M-4 has on it. for instance in most close quarter situations the smaller M-4 (since it has a collapsible buttstock) will allow someone to be much more mobile, pie their corners much more effectively and generally aid in moving around at the high or low-ready.

    Something else that may be fun, character wise, Marines have only switched over to M-4s in recent years (many many years after the army switched). The time delay was almost entirely because of budgets and i know some marines are either annoyed that the tools required to stay alive were kept away for such mundane reasons OR they mock soldiers about their "tiny guns". it's all in good fun but your character may find having a M-4 slightly odd or maybe he thinks about how useful it would have been "back in the day". It won't change his life but hopefully that tid bit will give you an interesting character moment.
     
    BayView likes this.
  7. Steerpike
    Online

    Steerpike Felis amatus Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2010
    Messages:
    11,065
    Likes Received:
    5,267
    Location:
    California, US
    Firing full auto you'll get a lot of muzzle rise. At least that's my limited experience with these sorts of weapons.
     
    BayView likes this.
  8. The Triarii
    Offline

    The Triarii Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2016
    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    21
    A m-4, even the military version, is not capable of full auto. You can modify it so that it is possible but that is illegal an in the police or military doing so will get you kicked out. Dishonorable discharge likely, jail time possible.
     
    BayView likes this.
  9. Steerpike
    Online

    Steerpike Felis amatus Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2010
    Messages:
    11,065
    Likes Received:
    5,267
    Location:
    California, US
    I don't know what we were shooting, then. I don't have a lot of experience with them. Thought it was an M-4.
     
  10. Startled Crow
    Offline

    Startled Crow Member Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2016
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    13
    Location:
    United States
    I shoot guns for recreational purposes, mainly target shooting and to be proficient since I commonly carry concealed (note that I have a permit to do that, nothing illegal going on here haha). I find that rifles likes that are easier to control than my handguns. I don't own an automatic rifle like that because they are rather expensive and I'd prefer to build one, some day but a buddy does and I have shot his several times. My personal carry is a smaller 9mm pistol and I find it to be harder to control than a rifle. I am still efficient with it mind you but the more components I can grip on to, the better I can control the firearm. I don't know if that helps you out but I figured I'd at least chime that in. :)
     
    BayView likes this.
  11. The Triarii
    Offline

    The Triarii Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2016
    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    21
    It can be confusing but the m-4 is the military variant. For example the AR-15 is the civilian version of the M-16A2 and they look identical in almost every way. However the AR-15 is not able to do three round burst. Looks can be deceiving.

    It's also possible it was a M-4 or M-4 equivalent with the aforementioned illegal mods. Although that was a US based statement, it could be legal in your country/province/state/region etc
     
    Steerpike and BayView like this.
  12. Samurai Jack
    Offline

    Samurai Jack Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2010
    Messages:
    167
    Likes Received:
    101
    Location:
    Nashville, TN
    The M4A1 is a fully automatic variant of the M4, so they do exist.

    Muzzle rise is definitely an issue, but also the rifle will push you back. Even consecutive 3-round-burst, while trying to stand straight up, will send you backwards. Give the rifle a little bit of height, you can lead forward enough that you would fall over and use the firing to hold yourself up.
     
    The Triarii likes this.
  13. The Triarii
    Offline

    The Triarii Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2016
    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    21
    Right, forgot about the a1. Just be aware, I don't believe that is standard issue for any police department. And yes, leaning in on a three round burst is important but it is very dependent on the size of your MC, a larger man will not need to lean in much because the m-4 just does not have a lot of recoil. Even someone with a more slim athletic build will not have much trouble as long as they have good core muscles. However even with rock hard abs you will reach muscle failure on prolonged sets of three round burst eventually.
     
    BayView likes this.
  14. Steerpike
    Online

    Steerpike Felis amatus Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2010
    Messages:
    11,065
    Likes Received:
    5,267
    Location:
    California, US
    Good info. Thanks. I was working at a place that built AR-15s. A lot of ex-military guys there, and they had a number of weapons out back. These guys would often modify weapons as well. So who knows what it was...I do remember the muzzle climb catching me off guard the first time I fired it.
     
    BayView likes this.
  15. zoupskim
    Offline

    zoupskim Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2015
    Messages:
    648
    Likes Received:
    524
    I am a marine and have experience firing an M-4.

    The recoil is light, but the weapon is light and short. It feels like you are holding a toy, so it jumps away when you shoot. Recovering after each single shot is the big thing, as the light weapon can wobble around a lot if you don't have a good tight grip. However, having an excessively tight grip is discouraged because you want a neutral stance to avoid muscle twitching and fatigue.

    http://www.aihpa.com/Training&Guides/US%20Marine%20Shooting%20Team%20Guide.htm
     

Share This Page