Shadowland by Peter Straub

Discussion in 'Discussion of Published Works' started by VynniL, Mar 6, 2016.

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  1. BooksandCoffee

    BooksandCoffee Member

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    I should have expected such from a woman that throws virtual daggers at my head!:rolleyes:
     
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  2. VynniL

    VynniL Contributor Contributor

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    Oops, took a bit longer than I thought and was interrupted by a webinar I had to attend.

    Now back to serious matters, the book...
    I read some more last night and I'm intrigued and boggled by the chapter devoted to Marcus Reilly.

    I was previously reading up on voodoo (do not freak out!) and the Haitians were mentioned because it's very ingrained into their culture and religion. I immediately recognized the reference.

    To quote Marcus on his encounters with his Haitian associates:

    "They can make you go blind, make you deaf, make you see things, they think. Magic. I say, if it's magic, it can't be right. There's no such thing as good magic, that's what I learned."

    So I go back to my earlier belief that this book has a message about magic being evil.

    It's interesting we're shown how magic has impacted on the lives of other Carson students. Did you notice that on top of Marcus seeing the bird, they were driving on Collins Avenue? Name name names!

    I did enjoy the chapter on Marcus so does that make me morbid? The man killed himself because he was tormented by black magic. :ohno:

    I'm not sure what to make about the narrator's observation:

    I remembered him asking me if I had seen a bird as little tucks and dents appeared in his face, just as if someone were sewing him up from inside.

    I think this is one of those unanswered question points? Is it insinuating that Marcus has been possessed by a spirit? Why was this scene included? Was it just to add to the idea that it wasn't only Tom and Del affected by the School and Cole?

    I'm really interested in your read of this chapter. Because up until that point, Marcus was not a noteworthy character besides the narrator telling us at the start of the book that he committed suicide.

    Tom meets Rose finally!
    I liked how efficiently Straub was able to captured the first meeting and Tom's teenage boy reactions to the Rose. It was short and sweet but brought across the strong infatuation both boys were experiencing. So yes, this was consistent with my memories.

    So Cole is the Collector was revealed from his experiences as a doctor in World War I. I like the idea he was drawn to medicine because it was close to the kind of power magic offers by vanquishing nature. But skipping over the magic briefly, all the intestines falling out from a dying man who should be dead, but was only "three-fourths" dead was horribly riveting for me...:bigeek: All the begging, the cascading of intestines, yet another owl, and an impossible situation ending with the mercy execution was great stuff. Finally, some good horrible moments. The story is picking up now.

    I'll end this update with Ceremonial magic. Contrary to your advice, I am going to read up on Éliphas Lévi and the translated version of the Dogme et Rituel de la Haute Magie. And yeah, I'll make sure to check out Aleister Crowley. ;)

    And no, I don't have any aspirations to be a ceremonial magician. Now, don't you start getting worried that I might be sending birds your way. Just more research. :twisted:


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    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 15, 2016
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  3. VynniL

    VynniL Contributor Contributor

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    You know you love to play with knives. It's not so much at your head as it is in your head. It's alright, I'm here to indulge all your deathly fantasies. :p
     
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  4. BooksandCoffee

    BooksandCoffee Member

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    Marcus is a tragic character and it is curious why the author includes him. It could be to help the narrator verify the story, as we find out near the end. It could be to discuss island magic, Voodoo, Hoodoo, Santeria and such; all of which work around Sympathetic Magic. Whatever the reason, the death of Marcus is rather striking.

    Of course you are morbid, and perhaps a touch homicidal with all your flying knives! lol:bigwink:

    Rose is a major part of the story, Del tells Tom about her, and Tom gets a glimpse of her before ever meeting her. It is a foregone conclusion that both boys will be infatuated with her.


    Considering your violent thoughts, I always knew you would look all that up. :bigwink:

    Oh, thanks for your Selfie at the end of your post. Now I can put a . . . face to @LinnyV. It also explains your obsession with pedestrian romance novels. :superlaugh: hahahahhaa
     
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  5. VynniL

    VynniL Contributor Contributor

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    Thank you @BooksandCoffee! :blowkiss: You've hung in there and I've finished the book, yay! :cheerleader:

    Starting off, we get through all this secretive love connection of between Tom and Rose. It was okay but as an older woman reading this, all the declarations of love were repetitious and childish and I wasn't so moved... In some ways, the teeny romance was a bit ...pedestrian... You're probably screaming like a school girl right now, outraged at the idea that you read a pedestrian romantic plot, but there you have it. It was just okay and not the haunting love story I had hoped. At times, you got the sense Tom felt burdened by it and I'm not totally convinced he wouldn't have sacrificed Rose to save Del. I also wasn't certain Rose wouldn't have sacrificed the boys if she thought she had better options. It wasn't the best love triangle for me. In the end, Straub sacrificed both Del and Rose. Boo!

    Also, the bird dream welcoming scene came earlier than I expected, and it wasn't quite what I remembered. For me, the birds were the magically blessed people transformed, or they were harbingers of death - don't forget to feed the owl !!!

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    As suspected, the Brothers Grimm were not essential; Straub was getting carried away with the fairy tale theme. He could have tried to make them more interesting and replaced some of those dumb trolls with the brothers. I did get impatient with the Red Riding analogy when Tom was walking through the dark woods and seeing each scene. By the end of it, I was getting quite sick of fairy tales.

    Along the way, and I can't remember where exactly, we're finally told that all the magic came from Tom at the School. That was why the students went a little mad with the nightmare jokes. It's also confirmed that all the students have been touched in some way, and the death of Marcus is an example. I did appreciate how all the premonitions and visions experienced during the time at Carsons or later were tied back to the sessions between Collins and Tom. We're get to understand why Del was behaving so strangely.

    And the old gun bothered me because it was conveniently available and fully loaded. You would think Collins would not leave dangerous weapons lying around that might ruin his plans.

    Then there was that dismal attempt to escape from Shadowland. It was a test which ended with them looping back to the mansion. I didn't care to listen to the voices Tom heard in the tunnel or the revelations he got from them. During this, came the appearance of Devil, M aka Laker Broome aka minor devil aka evil magic scout. His whole point was just to say 'I told you so, should have chosen evil...' Yeah, whatever. I was a bit bored during all this.

    Thanks to Collins, Shadowland has become a place of evil. I still think this book is all about dark magic. I leave with the idea of that magic corrupts; that you mess with nature at your own peril because there's always a cost. Furthermore, the power to create magical acts requires a lot of energy. With that in mind, it's easier to draw that energy from hate, anger and pain. Tom did it when he loosened the bolts of the steps with his mind. So here we have our good boy, new to the magician's stage, killing in a fit of rage.

    You didn't even warn me that Alex Crowley makes a cameo appearance. It was rather dopey too. Crowley only got to say two words. "Begone fiend!" To which Collins changed his hand to a bird claw and replied, "Begone yourself."Meh. I think other magicians might have been mentioned, but I was too lazy to confirm.

    Oh, Collins regrets that he didn't think to put Crowley in the Collector. Thank god! The idea of the Collector wasn't so interesting for me. What was it essentially? As I read, I kept seeing it as a human-sized condom that Collins liked to stuff people into. I know it wasn't so but my imagination just morphed that way and refused to budge. I just couldn't get with the Collector program. Tom eventual saves the day when he finally figures out how to get access to his magic powers and stuff Collins into the demonic sack thingy. A quick flick of a switch and the Collector is sucked back into bathroom mirror. The house was set on fire and the job's done. It was quite a tidy way take out the villain.

    As you also highlighted at the start, there were all these religious references that you couldn't miss even if you tried. There's the crucifixion of Tom. Bud being a a son of Hagar??? Skeleton finding religion. The whole business of Magicians being Gods because they are men with superior knowledge. And the Book that Tom stole stating "These are the secret teachings of Jesus the son of God, as told by him to his twin, Judas Thomas." The novel got quite heavy on the Christianity theme as we got to the end; by then my brain was hurting. Maybe you have more thoughts about all this because it's not my favorite topic.

    I felt bad for Del. By the end, I was hoping Tom could save the little sparrow Del had become. Interesting that. I didn't have much empathy for Del until Collins turned him into a sparrow both real and then crystal. It was then you really felt the love the boys had for each other. Anyway, Del was a heroic little sparrow that finally stood up to his Uncle. It was nice that Straub gave him his final song of magnificence. You really felt Del got that moment of pure magic he'd always wanted. He then got his wish to remain in Shadowland forever. Not quite the way he envisaged, but that's magic wishes. I was sad but at peace for Del. I think this boy was the real tragedy of the story.

    Strangely, I didn't care so much for Rose even though I wanted her and Tom to get a happily ever after. It's probably that I've been influenced by the heartless mermaid propaganda and just never fully trusted her motives after that. I assume she went back to the magical realm she came from that was also Shadowland. To leave the young boy sitting on the beach waiting for a whole day even knowing she wasn't coming back, was poignant. I think was what I remembered.

    I was extremely disappointed that it was the narrator who came back to Shadowland! So again that was my faulty memory at play. It didn't have the emotional impact because it wasn't Tom. I wanted to end the book with his thoughts looking back on the events as a grown man. I think this is what makes the ending so unsatisfying for me.

    My conclusions:

    Ultimately, good wins. Tom survives his schooling and reluctantly ascends the throne to be the King of Cats. He's been welcomed to Shadowland and it's an invitation he's not allowed to refuse. I guess he'll sit on his owl throne as the absentee caretaker until somebody else comes along and takes over.

    In the end, I think Tom was not broken; that's not to say he wasn't affected by his heartbreak. He's just adamant he wasn't going to end up like Collins; lost in the fog of magic where he no longer could see right from wrong and putting the hurtin' on others. To become dispossessed and pathetic with only a macabre audience to keep him company. His experiences that summer taught him that he too could be drawn into the darkness. That's why he doesn't pursue the fame that Collins wants and why he doesn't care to stay at Shadowland. Maybe he doesn't actually need to be there because this magical realm is everywhere.

    So while the estate was the final home of his best friend, Del and the only home to his first love, Rose, he knows that they will never return there as they were. I was wondering if Tom was so powerful, why couldn't he turn Del back and 'fix' Rose. Perhaps this goes back to the idea that everything has a price, and Tom knows the sacrifice is too high.

    I'm really curious about the adventures of the grown up Tom; the underrated magician working out of the seedy venues. It's a shame we won't ever get that story. :cry:

    Despite all my criticisms above, I was satisfied with the story. It was very light on the horror but has certainly given me a lot of magical concepts to explore. I don't have any unanswered questions that I feel need answers, how about you?

    I just looked back and saw I wrote so much stuff... Oops, as I said, it's my last rambling post on this thread I promise!
     
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  6. VynniL

    VynniL Contributor Contributor

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    Now time to deal with the attitude...
    I repeat, I'm just a virtual manifestation of you having a death wish. Why else would you keep bringing them up?
    Selfie? To begin with, do you know what a Selfie is? I'm putting your age at somewhere approaching 100 going on 5. So if I went by either end of the scale, I'd say you would struggle with the definition of Selfie. Like your confusion about trolls. :bigtongue:

    Anyway, I think you may be confused re what you thought was a Selfie... But it should clear up once you start feeling oddly prickly. Keep me updated.

    Also, who are you to talk about faces to a name? Your avatar is rather plain. I decided to take it on myself to find you something suitable. I'm very helpful like that.

    One moment....

    *Off googling*

    Found it! Here you go.

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    Golden Girls might ring a bell? In any case, I think Betty with light sabers is very you.

    I'm still trying to figure out what these pedestrian romances are. Is this is special category for your advanced age group? :superconfused:

    And finally, you've been quite the patient stooge in my one woman ramblings of Shadowland.
    :read::write::rant::pop:

    I know you probably have quite a few copies already, but here are your prizes for volunteering:

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    Thanks again for being a good sport. ;)
     
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  7. BooksandCoffee

    BooksandCoffee Member

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    I was surprised that you managed to block out all the religious angles when you read it the first time. With all the heavy-handed Christian things, I did wonder why the author did not have Tom power his magic with love, love for Rose, and love for his friend Del. It would have fit the Christian motif perfectly to have love win out over hate, good over evil – it might even have left the possibility for a sequel.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2016
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  8. BooksandCoffee

    BooksandCoffee Member

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    I am glad that you enjoyed the book, even if it was not what you remembered. So, what book is next, this was fun.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2016
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  9. VynniL

    VynniL Contributor Contributor

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    @BooksandCoffee

    Maybe we both need to take a break and eat a snickers... :whistle:

     

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