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  1. Lewdog
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    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

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    Should Caitlyn Jenner Win a Courage Award?

    Discussion in 'Debate Room' started by Lewdog, Jul 16, 2015.

    I have to ask if what Caitlyn Jenner (Formerly Bruce Jenner) has done as far as coming out of the closet as a transgender person, is worthy of a Courage Award.

    Now let's put some things in perspective. There was Lauren Hill who despite having an inoperable brain tumor continued her quest to play in a college basketball game, and she did. Her parents accepted a different award on her part because she is no longer with us, but she deserved the courage award. There are many others like her out there, like players who have spent their time fighting for their country and have come back to go to college, some with war wounds and even missing limbs. There's kids and teens with debilitating illnesses that still pursue their dreams to play the sports they love.

    I don't know but I just don't see Caitlyn Jenners act as deserving of such an award. I think it is only because of name recognition and not deserving.
     
  2. Lemex
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    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    I think there is the name recognition side of it that might make it seem unfair, but everyone I knew knew of Bruce Janner before the transformation - so I think because he (past tense) was so famous and respected in a let's-face-it typically rather masculine profession, and to come out as transgender and a she, is all the braver, because it's then really putting a very personal thing out there for the public. So ... yeah, I think she deserves a Courage Award, in the same way I think Ellen Page deserved one for coming out as a lesbian in Hollywood.

    It could have harmed their careers, and yes ok you can say they aren't likely to go hungry any time soon, I think 50 Cents' recent filing for bankruptcy shows how quickly money can be lost if you aren't careful, and no one major hires you or cares about your work anymore.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2015
  3. Lea`Brooks
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    Lea`Brooks Contributing Member Contributor

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    I too think she deserved the award. But I don't believe in any way that her courage is greater/better/trumps the courage of another. Lauren Hill was courageous. Chris Kyle was courageous. And Caitlyn Jenner is courageous. And I think it's unfair to state that Caitlyn Jenner doesn't deserve the award because what she's going through isn't equal to what someone else went through.

    From my understanding of the award, ESPN stated that they gave it to Jenner because of the strong social issues of our current culture. And being transgender in this world today is hard. And Caitlyn (or Bruce, since this would have been before) could have very easily not come out. He could have wore dresses and wigs at home, on his own time, in private, and not let anyone know about that side of him. But it took loads of courage to come out and to tell the world, "Yes, this is who I am, and I'm not afraid." Because look at all the backlash. People are accusing her of being fake, of doing it for the money, of still just being "a boy in a dress." Caitlyn would have been foolish to think those kinds of remarks wouldn't happen. But she came out anyway. She suffers day in and day out from people judging her, insulting her, challenging her every move. And I think that speaks so loudly that she handles it with such grace.

    It's hard being different in today's society. People fear what they don't understand. So I support for her bravery to stand up and be herself, to represent the transgender community, to speak for the every day transgender person who suffers in silence, despite knowing how hard it would be for her. It may not be "saved lives in the military" courage or "continued to play basketball with a tumor" courage. But it's courage nonetheless. And her receiving the award in no way takes away what others have done in the name of bravery.
     
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  4. Lewdog
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    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

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    Do you think the fact that she just killed someone in a car accident should make a difference in winning the award?
     
  5. Lemex
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    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    Didn't the court rule it an accident? I'm not sure why it would have made a difference, either.
     
  6. Steerpike
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    Steerpike Felis amatus Supporter Contributor

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    RE: the accident, I think the facts of the situation matter. Who was at fault? I think the investigation is ongoing. Apparently Jenner wasn't under the influence, from preliminary reports I've seen. Were others at fault? Was it simply a terrible accident? I haven't followed it closely enough to know those details, if they're even out at this time. If Jenner did something reckless that resulted in the death of another person then I think it should be a factor.
     
  7. Lewdog
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    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

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    From what I heard Jenner was on her phone at the time of the accident. I believe there has already been a civil suit filed against Jenner.

    http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/caitlyn-jenner-slammed-by-car-crash-driver-over-espys-award-win-2015167
     
  8. Lewdog
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    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

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    Here is an article mentioning the law suits, though it also mentions there have been no charges so far.

    http://www.etonline.com/news/168060_driver_involved_fatal_caitlyn_jenner_crash_denounces_olympian_espy_awards_honor/
     
  9. Lea`Brooks
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    Lea`Brooks Contributing Member Contributor

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    At this point, we don't know a lot. There's a video of the accident, but it's not clear enough to see if Caitlyn was actually on her phone or not. She did pass a field sobriety test and has been cooperating fully. Surely she must take some responsibility for it. And if she was using her cell phone, which was illegal, there will definitely be stronger consequences.

    But she's not the only celebrity to have killed someone. I think if we're going to shame her so hard for this, we should shame all the celebrities who's unfortunate accidents caused the death of someone else.
     
  10. Steerpike
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    Steerpike Felis amatus Supporter Contributor

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    If she was talking on her handset while driving, she may very well be held liable. That's illegal in California.
     
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  11. GingerCoffee
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    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    If one can believe the tabloids, he wasn't texting and the police had a warrant for the cell phone records. I do think he was responsible for the crash, inattentive driving is the usual cause of failing to stop when traffic stops unexpectedly in front of you.

    And, he's been caught with the phone to his ear at other times.

    As for courage, he deserves the award based on courage and I don't think inattentive driving or even driving while on the phone is the equivalent of something like drunk driving, even as tragic as the outcome was in this case.
     
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  12. Stacy C
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    Stacy C Banned

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    No, Caitlyn doesn't deserve the award, at least not before Amy Van Dyken gets one.
     
  13. GingerCoffee
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    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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  14. Stacy C
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    Stacy C Banned

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  15. Void
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    Maybe I might come off as a callous arsehole for saying this, but I kind of detest the idea that terminally ill people doing anything other than laying down and giving up is courageous and brave. I'm aware it must suck to have an illness like that and to have your life cut off, but I just don't believe it makes people courageous to continue to follow their dreams and try to live the remainder of their life.
     
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  16. GingerCoffee
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    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    This is the debate room. Perhaps you shouldn't post here if you don't want people to comment on your POV.
     
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  17. Stacy C
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    Stacy C Banned

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    Commenting is one thing. Constantly disagreeing and using your admittedly considerable Internet search skills to belittle the opinions of others is another.

    To drag this thread back from my digression (for which I apologize to the membership), I'll paraphrase my previous post: I don't care if Bruce Jenner believes he is, and presents himself as, a cross-eyed koala bear. To reward that sort of belief and presentation as 'courageous' is ludicrous and demeans the real courage of people like Ms. Van Dyken.
     
  18. Lea`Brooks
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    Lea`Brooks Contributing Member Contributor

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    I find it ironic that you criticize Ginger for belittling people that she disagrees with then you go on to belittle Caitlyn Jenner because you disagree with her.
     
  19. Lemex
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    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    And that's the good side of the debate room. You've not seen it when it turns childishly ugly.
     
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  20. Steerpike
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    Steerpike Felis amatus Supporter Contributor

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    I'm just glad it isn't a constant link-exchange contest. I left another debate forum over that, because there was never any discussion. Arguments went like this:

    Oh Yeah? *link* *link* *link*

    No it isn't! *link* *link* *link*

    No one was capable of carrying on a discussion or formulating their own thoughts. That's one thing we have going on the debate forum here that is nice.
     
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  21. Lemex
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    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    I've seen that too, and this place is better for it than other forums I've seen. There was a member over at OnlineLit.com that would picket debates when they got reference heavy, and would flood debates about religion with images of Richard Dawkins with photoshopped so it looked like he was kissing a monkey. Here that sort of thing would be considered trolling.
     
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  22. GingerCoffee
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    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    I will only add 2 observations @Stacy C: You seem to have it in for me and you claimed you missed Jazzabel who left before you joined.:superthink:
     
  23. Lemex
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    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    Where did she say that?
     
  24. GingerCoffee
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    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    In the thread on who's your oldest/best forum friend. This is off topic here, if you're interested send me a PM.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2015
  25. Kingtype
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    Kingtype Always writing or thinking things XD Staff Role Play Moderator Contributor

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    Quick observation and off topic but for as much as we get off topic maybe we should just have one big thread that we can all debate in or go at it. Like a Royal Rumble or something? Then whoever like the last person is that didnt rage quit or badly debate gets like a little gold belt or something

    We can like call it

    The WWDF

    World Writing Debate Federation.

    One thread to rule them all.

    We can have like the literary and speculative fiction debates as the tag titles, the femenism, gender and sexism stuff is like the mid- card belts and then any religious related or personal debates would be like the top titles.

    I'm sorry for being off topic but I've really thought this over!

    .......its a fantasy lol

    At least can we have the belts? :oops:
     
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