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  1. Adenosine Triphosphate
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    Adenosine Triphosphate Old Scratch Contributor

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    Slightly Blurred

    Discussion in 'Debate Room' started by Adenosine Triphosphate, Feb 1, 2015.

    If someone is extremely attracted to and weighted towards one gender but still feels some very small level of romantic or sexual feeling toward the other, are they bisexual in any significant sense?

    Technically, they probably are, but I feel like that label doesn't fit them perfectly. They seem too close to pure heterosexuality or homosexuality.
     
  2. Wreybies
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    Wreybies The Ops Pops Operations Manager Staff Contest Administrator Supporter Contributor

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    The labels themselves are erroneous in demanding that people fit into categories with sharp, distinct lines of separation between this and that. I guess it comes down to whether one is looking for a definition that fits at a cultural/societal level or one that fits at the individual level. The cultural/societal definitions are going to be, by default, rather rough and brutish in their inability to give attention to gradation, as is the situation we have now. The individual level means a recognition of continuum that renders labels ineffective and obsolete, which tends to fight our innate human preference for categories. Humans love to categorize. We made a whole science out of it in which one can earn a PhD. ;)
     
  3. Lemex
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    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    I've never believed sexuality is so static. I know many straight men who have had sex with other men.
     
  4. Wreybies
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    Wreybies The Ops Pops Operations Manager Staff Contest Administrator Supporter Contributor

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    And I've had plenty of fun across the years with girls. Contrary to popular cultural depiction, the idea of the female anatomy doesn't make me turtle or anything like that. We aren't so very different. I mean, yes, there are obvious differences, so those of you who feel compelled to bring a gun to that party, stop now. I'm just saying it isn't so wildly different as the prospect of laying down with something of a different species. That's the popular cultural depiction. The girls who I've given a tumble were people, names, human paradigms that laugh and giggle and are tender and aware and possessed of their own sexuality. That's a turn-on and it was always fun. No regrets.

    It doesn't alter in the slightest that within the artificial construct we currently use to determine "sexuality" I am a gay man. Given a choice of only one or the other, I'm going to pick peen, hands down. The issue with this conversation and what causes the huge chasm of opinion that is about to open up here in this thread, is that at a meta-level we are deeply invested in these categories, so much so that the definitions supersede the autonomous realities they are meant to define.
     
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  5. Adenosine Triphosphate
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    Adenosine Triphosphate Old Scratch Contributor

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    I feel like there's a difference between gay and straight as rough descriptors and Gay or Straight as political identities. The latter are somewhat useful at the moment, but they can be toxic when someone sees them at ideals to aspire to.

    I also feel like there's a difference between being bisexual in the sense of "I am significantly attracted to both genders" and bisexual in the sense of "I am open to new experiences".
     
  6. BayView
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    BayView Contributing Member Contributor

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    When I first heard/saw the QUILTBAG acronym I thought it was a little overdone, but now that I'm used to it I think it makes a lot of sense. But even with all those letters, I think Adenosine T. is right that there is an important difference between using the terms as, say, a way to narrow the search for a potential mate, and using the terms as political identifiers.

    ETA: And I'm not sure about lumping transsexuals in with other types of queer people, insofar as many transsexuals feel they were born 'wrong' and are taking advantage of medical procedures to correct an error, while I think the dominant idea in the gay community is that gay people were born 'right' and society is what needs to change in order to accept them.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2015
  7. Lea`Brooks
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    Lea`Brooks Contributing Member Contributor

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    Labels hurt our society. When people start seeing other people as white, black, gay, straight, basic, fabulous, normal, weird... That's the day we stop seeing them as "people."

    As a teacher's pet that got expelled out of the eighth grade and turned into a gothic bisxual in high school that went from one serious relationship to another only to leave my fiance three months after getting engaged and moving across the country to date and eventually marry someone I had never met before, I think it's safe to say I've had enough labels in my day.

    Unless you absolutely need to use them for a WIP, I'd steer clear of using any kind of label on anyone. Labels only create divisions and fracture our relationships with others.
     
  8. domenic.p
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    domenic.p Banned

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    I am a straight man. As a student of the bible, I judge no person for what they do. Many religions wave the banner, “God is against homosexuals.” They are branded sinners. The word sin means, “Falling short of the mark.” I have known homosexuals, and most say they were born that way. Being a writer I researched the subject in conjunction with what I know the scriptures say. Here is what I found:
    All types of animals have homosexuals within their ranks. Some stay together for life. It is a normal life style with some animals. I won’t go into what the scriptures say on the subject because I don’t want to turn the threat into a religious debate. I will just say: All humans have some animal seed within them. The past year it was proven by science, many humans have part Neanderthal DNA. When a person claims to be homosexual, or bisexual, it is not just a thing they want to do, it is natural from birth…which puts it in the realm of, “Falling short of the mark,” but not a self-injected sin as telling a lie.
    If any want more knowledge on this subject, just google; “Homosexuality in animals.”
     
  9. lustrousonion
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    lustrousonion Contributing Member

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    What label fits anyone perfectly?

    It's not your or anyone else's job to decide if a person is/isn't bisexual, heterosexual, homosexual, etc.; that's up to them. So, it's my opinion that this question can't be answered.
     
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  10. 123456789
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    123456789 Contributing Member Contributor

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    OK now I am genuinely confused. Everyone keeps telling me that sexuality is entirely biological and not psychological. Your statement seems to suggest otherwise.
     
  11. Lemex
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    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    I don't know how much stock you can put into someone like this, but the Feminist cultural critic Judith Butler says that 'Genre' is entirely a psychological creation. Basically you are born with either a penis or vagina, which is immaterial because as a child you are only interested in food and comforts, then as you develop a stronger consciousness you unconsciously think 'I have blank so I must be blank, I must live up to being blank'.
     
  12. BayView
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    BayView Contributing Member Contributor

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    Do you think that psychology has no biological component?

    I think possibly you've seen people arguing that sexual orientation is nature, not nurture - but that doesn't mean there's no psychological component to sexuality! I don't think I've ever heard anyone say there's no mental aspect to attraction...
     
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  13. Wreybies
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    Wreybies The Ops Pops Operations Manager Staff Contest Administrator Supporter Contributor

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    Because I'm more than just my limbic brain. I also have a neocortex that allows me to be attracted to who a person is, or even just the situation, and honestly, there have been bushels of weed in my life and most of this kind of play happened under its liberal-leaning influence. :) I think the kids call it highsexuality these days. But seriously, a pretty girl with a great body is a pretty girl with a great body. My gayness doesn't make me blind to this or evoke repulsion in me, again, as the common cultural depiction would have everyone believe.

    Seriously, bro, you're going to tell me that never once in your life have you come across a man of such pulchritude that he stopped you, even for just a moment, as you admired him? Never once?
     
  14. 123456789
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    123456789 Contributing Member Contributor

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    People have told me that sexual preference(not attraction) is entirely nature. My natural inclination toward this idea is skepticism but what do I know. Psychology is far more than biology, obviously .
     
  15. 123456789
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    123456789 Contributing Member Contributor

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    I'll admire a man, of course, but Ive yet to follow one down the street, stop in my tracks, mesmerized, or feel my blood rushing to my head because of one. And I've never ever felt my eyes drawn to a guys butt. Even an ugly chick will get that much from me. That's biological, for sure.
     
  16. BayView
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    BayView Contributing Member Contributor

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    I think you're still confusing the terms.

    The nature/nurture argument is one thing.

    But can you tell me how Wreybies' post strengthens or weakens either side of that argument? He's told us something about his sexual history and interests - he hasn't made any claims about the reasons for those interests, has he?
     
  17. 123456789
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    123456789 Contributing Member Contributor

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    Before we go any further here, I want to make one thing clear. I have no interest in judging another person for who they are attracted to (minus children of course). I'm just interested in the truth, regardless of whatever political agenda it offends. If anyone is not ok with this, I'll stop now.
     
  18. Wreybies
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    Wreybies The Ops Pops Operations Manager Staff Contest Administrator Supporter Contributor

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    Perhaps because you've not had a lifetime's worth of narrative from uncountable sources telling you to do exactly that. :) I have lived in that miasma of messages since the day I was born and still I prefer peen, hands down. Maybe my ability to cross over to chicks on occasion was born of just cannabis. Maybe it was born of the millions of voices from television and books and friends and the internet telling me that bewbs are the reason to be a man. Maybe the fact that my sexuality is thought of as "alternative" in the culture in which I live, it allows me to consider and act on what I consider alternatives (girls) with greater ease, since at the meta-level, enjoying peen is already seen as the same thing, alternative. Maybe, maybe maybe... All I can tell you is that my husband's physique flushes my cheeks and brings my manhood to attention. And on the odd occasion, so does the form of a woman. :)
     
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  19. Ankoku Teion
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    Ankoku Teion Active Member

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    dont label things, its one of the big problems in society today that we have to label everything anyone does. no one is 100 percent gay or straight, and no one is exactly 50/50, so no-one quite fits any of the 3 main labels.

    don't worry about it, if we have to label ourselves then we should assume the label we are most comfortable with.
     
  20. Ankoku Teion
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    Ankoku Teion Active Member

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    here here.

    labeling is a dangerous process, it creates more problems than it solves. if we are meant to be moving into a post-modern individualistic society then surly labels (of alll kinds, not just sexuality) should be the first things out the window, closely followed by meta-naratives, one-size-fits-all approaches and overriding social structures.
     
  21. BayView
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    BayView Contributing Member Contributor

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    Labels can be politically useful, though - I think eliminating labels is useful once equality has been achieved, but doing it prematurely would make it more difficult for groups with common interests to coordinate their efforts.

    In a perfect world - no labels needed. In this world? I think they're still pretty important. Ignoring them seems to be a version of the "I don't see colour" nonsense we see in race relations.
     
  22. ChickenFreak
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    How can you have sexual preference without sexual attraction?

    The fact that our society has chosen to declare that if you're attracted to men you're ONLY attracted to men, while if you're attracted to blonde hair you might make an exception for the right dark-haired person, is, IMO, a societal construct. Sure, gender has evolutionary significance while hair color doesn't in the same way, but I don't see that as a reason why we should assume that gender is a completely separate category with completely different rules.
     
  23. KaTrian
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    KaTrian A foolish little beast. Staff Supporter Contributor

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    I read from somewhere (a blog post, I think) someone saying (and a bunch of people agreeing) that you aren't bi unless you've had a serious, committed relationship with a member of the same sex.

    So... You aren't gay unless you've been in a committed relationship... Nor straight... So, huh?

    I agree, in politics and legislation, you want to have some labels, but this attitude, this sneering at people who don't fit to your tight little mold is out of place in everyday life. Labels are less relevant when we think how we really feel on the inside. Sure, finding a place, a category to fit in, is nice and identity-affirming, but it annoys me when people use them in such a bullshit manner as mentioned above.
     
  24. Jon Edwards
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    Labels hurt, but some labels are important. It's necessary to know what you are, and the only way to know that definitively, is with a label. Obviously there are grey areas, but there's never going to be words for every which way people like to go.
     
  25. Lea`Brooks
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    Lea`Brooks Contributing Member Contributor

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    I don't need a label to know who I am. And I don't need a label to define myself to others.
     
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