So, theme, what is it?

I didn't mean you have to have a very big clear message before anything starts. Just that by the end of the first draft you should have already thought about what it is you are doing.

 

But wouldn't it feel to much like a teen book? Or too immature?

I have nothing against teen books but if I make my story too understandable it might seem weak or cliched.

 

Told you.

 

Well I picked up a short story collection by Sartre called The Wall. Besides the character names (which by itself is already advanced for young readers) the sentences were structured in a way that it was hard to tell what was happening if I was not paying close attention.

I know being overly poetic is bad but without a bit confusion anyone could understand the story and they'll go "that plot is too easy, that story is too simple."

 

Trying to hide plot behind flowery language is pretty condescending. Anything written with this goal in mind is utterly, and without defense, reprehensible, impermissible, inexpiable and (as i'm trying to demonstrate) kind of annoying. Pretty pretensions, right?

"Better throw some bumptious words in there lest the common rabble foul my work with their grubby..."

You get the point.

 

lol, I'm saying that a little confusion is good. I wanted to read more of that book because the words and flow of his sentences were making me think a little.

 

I have posed the question on forums in other languages as well. Currently I'm putting the question to the Kawahiva Indians in the Brazilian Amazon. I have a special suit for face-to-face encounters.

What's a role play?

Good and proper.

 

Cadet @Wayjor Frippery Frippery decided to go AWOL two days before graduation from basic. The Martian Colonial command has currently placed a bounty out on his head, and that they be returned alive and relatively unharmed. So to those Celestial neighbors across the galaxy, keep a sharp eye out for this individual. They are to be considered a low level threat, so excessive force is at your discretion. Although we have reason to believe they will be much simpler to simply persuade them to come along with you on an adventure in your craft. As much as we don't feel that the performance of this individual as a soldier with in the ranks of ours, is one to tarnish our reputation and image as a well oiled war machine.

To collect your bounty, you will be verified and the cadet shall be confirmed before you are permitted to land on the surface. Once you have been vetted and cleared to land, you then proceed to the military installation so the young cadet in question can be incarcerated until the hearing. Then by official escort you will be brought to the Governance Building in the heart of Kokkonis Poli. Where you will be greeted by the Madam Chancellor, and receive your bounty. The monetary can be forgone for amnesty, and you can become a citizen of the the republic: The Martian Colonial. Good Luck and good Hunting.

Regards,
Cecelia Briggon
Acting Chancellor of The Martian Colonial May 30th, 2716

(Sidenote: If found to be on Tilgan, leave the cadet to fend for themself. The Volgans will punish the cadet, as they really don't like smart asses.)

 

For me it's the big picture of the entire thing.

 

"Theme" is when people try and tell you your book is about the Russian revolution no matter how many time you scream back that it's about hot vampires getting it on.

 

Flowery writing is fine, if well done. The idea that you always want the reader to be living the story vicariously, like they are watching a movie, is misguided. Some fiction is designed to draw attention to itself, just like certain styles of painting draw attention to the style while others are designed to lose the viewer in the realness of the art.

 

I think you're totally right. I write in a very simple, 'clean' style, and I don't think I could write a good YA or MG book. The age group of a book is much more about its themes, the severity of its stakes, the voice, than the presence or lack of purple prose.

 

(Perhaps just rewording what others have said, but...)

I think of theme as an overarching topic that the reader interprets the plot and characters' actions as relating to. There may be several in a piece, and they're usually invisible (i.e. not directly stated) but hang in the air nonetheless. Some readers have a better nose for them than others and may notice what the author trod in as well as the perfume they put on.

I wouldn't have thought of that as a theme, but as a contention: a message the author pushes that (usually) reflects their own opinion on a theme. Generally the more identifiable the contention, the more the work sounds preachy/like propaganda.

IMO, a work that explores a theme will do it by presenting several different (and conflicting) arguments around it. The reader has to mull over which they most identify with, and whether they think that weighting sums to an overall contention or not. Obviously, different readers reach different conclusions. And not all readers actually like this kind of piece. But I think when you hear people say that a book 'made them think', it's usually for thematic reasons like this.

 

Theme in written form is thesis. What point are you trying to prove? It's as simple as that.

Where the confusion comes in is when we learn about theme from the other arts. Painters put a puppy in every painting and do a puppy-themed show, filmmakers have one ugly character who shows up throughout the film and critics talk about the recurring theme of the ugly character representing the MC's tortured soul. An interior decorator sprinkles stripes around a room and calls that a stripe theme.

Those things may or may not be themes in those disciplines but they don't translate to novels. In a novel, you set out to prove that—for instance—crime doesn't pay. You prove it by showing how a life of crime leads to punishment.

Stating theme in this way (a life of crime leads to punishment) gives you a story catalyst (the temptation to commit a crime), a decision to engage in the story (concluding that the crime is worth committing), a story body (committing the crime, pursuit, trying to avoid punishment, falling into the habit of crime), a climactic scene (cornered by the forces of justice) and an ending (punishment). This is a simplified, but very usable story line based on a theme.

Theme should fit (and maybe even suggest) a story logline or cover blurb that brings in characters or a plot you want to work with. It doesn't have to be a police procedural or a typical detective story. Those elements can be interpreted in so many ways...

The story could be about Luke Skywalker tempted to commit the crime of going against the Galactic Empire. And his final punishment? He's doomed to a solitary life, estranged from his family and wondering if he's any better than his father.

And that, in a nutshell, is what theme is.

And the biggest mistake writers make with theme? Thinking they don't have or need one. If you don't pay attention to theme, it'll still be there; it just may not be a theme you want your work to state.

 

If either of mine have a theme, it's accidental. I can't say I'm bothered about what theme readers take away from them, if any

 

Three pages in. I'm going to stick my neck above the parapet.

I think — if we're talking about commercial fiction and especially genre fiction — that @Sack-a-Doo! is right on the money. I also think (head is way out now — snipers are pulling bolts) that if you don't do it this way, you ain't never gonna hit the big time. I would go as far as saying that the bestseller lists on both sides of the pond show this to be true.

You may now pull your triggers.

 

This bit is especially important in that sometimes we have to deal with a word having different meanings in closely related venues or contexts, which can lead to confusion if one doesn't apply a bit of care to how one engages. This leads to the obtuse argument in the Show vs. Tell conundrum, where some argue that all stories are told; hence, Show vs. Tell is a red herring. It's an almost purposeful misunderstanding of the fact that tell has two different meanings there.

 

And you wouldn't be alone there, either. A lot of writers don't bother themselves with theme. I'm not saying it's either a good or bad thing, just that it's the way it is.

Having read every book I can get my hands on about theme—by everyone from Egri to Tobias—I can't help myself. For instance, Aliens is a coming of age story and the theme is: Taking responsibility leads to happiness. Mind you, I didn't find this theme until the third draft or so.

 

I didn't get that from Aliens but when I think of any book I've enjoyed recently, I can't find a theme in any of them. I'm not sure if they don't have one or if I'm really bad at spotting them.