So, theme, what is it?

!Economy sense tingling: demand just outweighed supply!
Let the bidding begin!
(Nah, plenty of me to go around. Just be nice to me and talk to me and I'll... oh, you all left already.)



Interesting you say that, because in my previous post, that was almost exactly how I defined a novel that explores theme, which I'd have taken as the kind of 'lofty' stories you were against...

Having kept an eye on this thread, I think a lot of the conflict lies in that some people (like me) think a theme is a neutral thing, whereas others think it has to push some agenda.[/QUOTE]

And I think it's both!!! I just favour the more contemplative themes more.

 

Okay, I see where you're coming from now and I'll leave you to it. There's nothing worse than someone muddying the waters and making this job any harder than it already is.

 

If you want any advice on how to most effectively word your theme, let me know.

 

It's been said but I would also be one to say my book has 'no theme'
Does it have to have a theme?
Maybe it has a theme but I don't know about it.... Or I don't know about it yet lol

 

I always thought theme meant 'the story' if so then I have a theme...I have my story!

 

"Theme" is whatever your story's world is trying to say about the real world

 

Does it have to say anything? And if so does that mean it has no theme?

 

Nope.

Probably, although some people still might try to assign it a theme.

 

Alternatively:

It's very rare to write a story that doesn't say something about the real world to someone (probably impossible). Once you've put the words on the page the interpretation is out of your control, and just because you didn't intend something that doesn't mean it's not there.

Have you ever accidentally phrased something in a way that others found hilarious? Did you calmly explain that it wasn't actually funny because you didn't intend it as comedy? Did those who laughed 'assign' the humour, or did they just identify what you hadn't?

 

They assigned the humour.

 

That's hilarious!

 

Si's theme is man against nature, btw.

 

But do you make them think and feel in strong and meaningful ways? Do you explore real world issues? Both of those can create themes, at least by my definition.
And on the more narrow definition I would still argue if you don't have one clear message that doesn't mean you aren't saying things. It doesn't have to be one message to be themes. You can have little themes that maybe aren't that important. Still themes you explore a little.

 

I like this definition. It's often difficult to recognise a story's theme, and I think authors sometimes don't see the themes in their own stories. Themes give the literature teacher something to do. They get their students to 'discover' theme. (I used to be both.)

If you're a writer, worrying about theme can be a mistake. If you're too conscious of your 'theme' as you write, you can end up preaching or creating characters and situations that merely service the theme. That can make for predictible plots and character stereotypes.

I'd say best to let your story's theme evolve naturally as you write it. Later on, you can discover what it is yourself.

 

That's interesting, because I'd have argued the opposite. If you're aware of theme, you can consciously recognise what your contention is and take steps to avoid making it too glaring by ensuring you represent other views (issue and counterpoint). And in choosing to explore other angles (because you're considering theme), you open a vault in your mind that's full of interesting characters and plot details.

 

Well, that's the hoped-for result, for sure. Awareness of theme can enrich a story in a skilled writer's hands. It's just that some writers come up with themes and then hammer them to death. Have you ever read The Ragged-Trousered Philanthropist? A more worthy theme I couldn't imagine, but reading it? Yikes. I plowed through, but it wasn't easy. Ditto House With the Green Shutters.

 

I'm afraid I haven't read either of those (Wikipedia's description of The Ragged-Trousered Philanthropists makes it sound like a socialist manifesto?). Perhaps this illustrates the difference between being aware of a theme and focusing on it?

But the bias present in one's theme plays a part too. If you explore various perspectives, IMO you'll create a more interesting read than if you push an obvious agenda. Having said that, I'd prefer propaganda with interesting plot/characters/setting to a balanced exploration without. I wouldn't advocate focusing on theme to the exclusion of all else, but I think you end up with something greater than the sum of its parts if you're aware enough to integrate it well.

 

Not to start this all over again, but since some people will see a theme (and likely tell all their friends about it) I think it's better to step in and push it in a direction I'm comfortable with. I suppose that doesn't mean everyone will find the theme I'd intended, but maybe it'll increase the odds.

 

Actually, that's a type of conflict rather than a theme.

 

I agree. I think it's best to get through at least one draft before I even think about theme. Then I try to find it in the work itself. Of course, if I don't like what it's saying, I'll still finish the story. At times like that, I try to be philosophical and convince myself it's something I needed to learn myself. That approach doesn't always work on me, though.

 

And as a reader, I find this more engaging, too.

 

We're never going to agree on this.

ETA: Maybe because we have a totally different type of friends. Never in my life have I heard someone say to their friend "I just read a great coming-of-age story about how responsibility leads to happiness!"

My friends are more likely to say "I just read a great book about an alien invasion. Want to do Nando's for lunch?"

 

Oh, I wouldn't argue with that. It's just that theme, awkwardly handled, can overwhelm the specifics of a story. It can become, as you say, a manifesto or treatise or parable. I prefer themes that are strong, but subtle. Maybe even so subtle that the author wasn't quite aware of them, until they finished writing the book and saw what they'd created.

I can tell you the theme of my own novel now, but I wasn't aware of it when I started. I knew what I wanted my story to do, and how I wanted my main character to develop—but I didn't get a sense of what it all meant, till I was done.

 

yes, I believe my characters have strong feelings and they have to over come differing problems to continue with life, but does that make it a theme?
Isn't a theme something that recurs in a story?

 

A theme doesn't have to recur, in any directly sense. It doesn't even have to be directly stated even once.