1. adamant
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    adamant Contributing Member Contributor

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    Soul

    Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by adamant, Jul 24, 2007.

    Philosophical questions amuse me simply due to the fact that there is no definite answer; thusly, I am posting these questions to start a bit of a debate if you will. Similar to the religion thread, no doubt. Perhaps, I'll post some other philosophical questions later; assuming this one doesn't die.


    If you, in fact, believe it exists: What is the soul in your words? Do you believe it is separate from the mind and body? Does it exist after death? Does it exist before birth? Are souls reincarnated into other vessels? And if so, why do they not retain any knowledge in any other form? Is the soul strictly present in humans? Is there a way to become closer to one's own soul?

    Otherwise: Why don't you believe in the soul? What is your definition of the soul (or the misconception of this entity)?
     
  2. JetBlack
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    JetBlack Banned

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    Soul has two meanings. I don't believe in the religious soul, but i do believe in 'Damn, that brother has soul'.

    How would i describe it? A deep fulfilling passion for something.
     
  3. MedicMan
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    MedicMan Member

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    To me, the soul is the part of us with intelligence, emotions, and so on. It's the soul that is judged by God when we die, and at the resurrection it's our soul that is reunited with our new body.

    ~MedicMan~
     
  4. JetBlack
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    JetBlack Banned

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    Hey buddy, answer me this. Do souls have a gender?
    Because gender is a physical trait, i was wondering, if marriage is the 'binding' of two souls together before God shouldn't it matter about their sex?

    Strudel that over in your noodle
     
  5. MedicMan
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    MedicMan Member

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    Souls have 'gender' but they don't have 'sex'. To me, 'gender' is a state of mind, which is why you get effeminate guys and masculine girls. 'Sex' is the physical characteristic that makes you a boy or a girl. So your soul can have gender because it can be girl-like or boy-like.

    ~MedicMan~
     
  6. JetBlack
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    JetBlack Banned

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    Odd, seeing the first few weeks of life in the womb one doesn't have a gender. Its when the gender emerges the hormones in the brain take over, this is what will most often make you 'boy-like' or girl-like'.
     
  7. MedicMan
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    MedicMan Member

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    So perhaps you don't have a soul for the first few weeks of your life either? The soul is not necessarily present from the moment of conception - I don't see a foetus as being truly 'alive' (vis-a-vis abortion) unless it could survive outside of the womb; and since every living human has a soul, this logically follows that the soul is not necessarily there from conception.

    ~MedicMan~
     
  8. JetBlack
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    JetBlack Banned

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    Of course fetuses are alive. The sperm that creates them is alive. The egg that creates them is alive. The cells that multiply are most definitely alive. As soon as the sperm hits the egg a living human is made. The DNA is that of a living human. So by saying 'and since every living human has a soul' you have quite severely contradicted yourself.
     
  9. MedicMan
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    MedicMan Member

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    I don't think a foetus is fully a human. Certainly, it has the potential to become one, but at that very point in time it is not. A seed has the potential to become a flower, but you don't call it a flower, because at that point in time it isn't a flower. As such, it does not necessarily have a soul at that point in time.

    ~MedicMan~
     
  10. SeaBreeze
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    SeaBreeze Banned

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    Soul? I sold mine for a kitkat (not really.) I believe souls as spirits.. maybe. I dunno. Maybe a soul is a concience.

    .....
     
  11. JetBlack
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    JetBlack Banned

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    So why isn't a fetus a human? Because it lacks consciousness? Do you feel the same towards people that are in comas?
     
  12. jmitchell1986
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    jmitchell1986 New Member

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    This issue is one that I have struggled with for quite a while. I was raised strictly Catholic, so I guess then I did believe in the soul in a religious sense. But then I cast of Catholocism (after realising that I am gay, and having a major crisis), and I don't know, I guess my belief in the soul went with it. I think the soul is there if the person believes it to be, the same way that I believe that God can exist to a person if they believe he/she/it does. Being agnostic, I guess my opinion to sould is the same to my opinion on religion; show me proof, and yeah, I'm a believer!

    Now one type of soul I do believe in is Soul music. Ah, how I love it :D
     
  13. Torana
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    Torana Contributing Member Contributor

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    I have to agree with you JetBlack. A fetus is a human being. From the moment the egg is fertilised it is growing and developing.
    That is what living things do. Grow and develop. It feeds off of its mother already so how can you say it is not alive???
    A fetus actually has a heartbeat when they are 7mm in length. Did you know that? I do as I am a mother of 2 beautiful little angels and when I had my first ultrasound my son was 7mm in length and he had a very strong heartbeat.
    So how could he not be alive if he had a heartbeat?

    As for soul, I don't know what a soul is. Maybe we have one and maybe we don't. It is one of those things that we will never really know 100% as we can not see the soul.
    Some people feel that only what can be seen is real and what can't be seen just doesn't exist.



    Torana
     
  14. dushechka
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    dushechka Contributing Member

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    What is the soul.. I guess if I were to think of it in a religious sense the soul would be your ability to "connect" with God, as we are unable to do so in flesh.
    Then again, if religion was out of the question, I would hope the soul gives us passion, a deeper meaning.
    If that makes sense?..

    I don't believe the soul is part of the body, but knowing when it came into place is a question I have no answer for. Kind of like "when did blue become your favourite color?" You really have no idea, it just is. As far as it being separate from the mind, I really have no idea. Our minds are fascinating.. =]

    Again, if religion is in the equation, yes I would say the soul exists after death. But again, before birth? I don't know. Are all our interests and loves predetermined at birth?

    I would use self-reflection as a way to get closer with my soul.. Other than that, I'm not sure..

    This was fun. : )
     
  15. JetBlack
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    JetBlack Banned

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    Death and birth are completely different and are not comparable as life and death. Birth is merely the child's expulsion from the body because it is now *relatively* strong enough to survive in the outside environment. It obviously doesn't miraculously gain life at that exact moment, it gains life as soon as zygotes meet. One would think the soul if it did exist would be that miraculous spark of life, in the beginning, bonding the soul to the body to create oneness. Yet If it were to come and go like a haunting phantisism...
     
  16. dushechka
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    dushechka Contributing Member

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    But can our surroundings affect the way our soul develops? Or does it at all? I guess I was just thinking aloud, wondering if our soul is ever-present, or we randomly "feel" it one day and never let go.
     
  17. Night Haunter
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    Night Haunter Banned

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    Oh really
     
  18. Crazy Ivan
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    Crazy Ivan Contributing Member

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    Actually, JetBlack has quite the point here. When is someone born? When they're conceived, at a point in pregnancy, upon being expelled from the body, some point afterwards? Does it have to do with a soul? If it does, how can you pinpoint where it comes in?
     
  19. JetBlack
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    JetBlack Banned

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    What id like to point out, which would technically work under these circumstances also, is that if the soul does not enter the body at the very begging of life, who is to say it leaves only at death? It is an enigma, and theorize about it all we want, we will never come to a conclusive answer, this post could go on for 500 pages and we would gain nothing but faster touch typing skills.
     
  20. Crazy Ivan
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    Crazy Ivan Contributing Member

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    This is true, but that's what opinions are for!

    Personally, I think there is a soul, and it pops in sometime around birth, and leaves the body at death to go to whatever the afterlife is (Hopefully something distinctly upwards).
    But if we have a soul, this raises another question: Are our actions predestination (We're destined to go through them), based on our own actions (our decisions are our fate), or what? If it IS predestination, some people would say that outlaws the need for a soul, but I wouldn't necessarily agree- for example, our bodies could be the vessels for taking us through the actions, but our souls are the kind of filters for how we view the world. For example, if something happened to Adamant, his "adamant filter" would process the events and present them in his mind and create "adamant's thoughts" on the event. But if it happened to me, it would go through my "ivan filter" and come out as "Ivan's thoughts." Thus, opinions and differences and whatnot.
     
  21. JetBlack
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    JetBlack Banned

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    Predestination is flawed. It means that God plans every Rape and Death, which inevitably would conflict with the commandments, so he would be basically sending you to 'Hell' on a whim of his own.
     
  22. Crazy Ivan
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    Crazy Ivan Contributing Member

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    What I like is the theory someone put up in a similar discussion on another forum:

    This theory is the win.
     
  23. JetBlack
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    JetBlack Banned

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    I prefer the theory 90% actions to 10% brain malfunction and slight to severe retardation.
     
  24. adamant
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    adamant Contributing Member Contributor

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    What MedicMan says about gender is true, but it also seems to avoid his question a bit. Gender roles are created by society, a man on an Amazonian island would be far less superior (and would have different roles) than another in say, America. Though, why would the soul wait for the sex to be selected (esp. if you believe that it already has one)? And is it just there waiting? Doesn't that mean it knows what's going to happen? ...Predestination lurks in.

    JetBlack, you could argue where conception begins all day long, but the fact is that at one point that organism comes into existence. Though that topic could be a thread in itself. Also, seeing has how the sperm and egg are alive, does that mean that they would have a soul also? What about other animals and plants?

    Another interesting question: What would the soul be made of? Due to the fact that the human population keeps growing, it would be hard to factor in something like reincarnation, would it not? (I know they have different levels of existence, but still.)

    And if predestination does exist, couldn't we all just kill ourselves and get this over a hell of a lot faster?
     
  25. DivineLemon
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    I personally do not believe in predestination. I believe we all have a "calling" of some sort that aches in our mind until we face it with open arms.

    While I believe in religion, a belief in a greater power, I do know that people have to make their own personal choices. Free will. We may have a predestined path but whether we choose to follow it is the question. Each person adds a little something to this horrid world in the end, a challenge, and idea, a novel. We each build of others' accomplishments.

    I believe we all work to build a greater good, and only when we reach this point in our lives are we taken and brought into a new location:

    Heaven
    Hell
    Reincarnation
    Ghosts
    And so on...

    This "point" may be more pronounced to some, such as a soldier killed in the line of duty, or it can be somewhat minute, such as being a good parent.
     

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